*** Logfile started *** on Út čec 29 20:03:46 2008 [Út čec 29 2008] [20:03:46] Připojit se You have joined the channel #fedora-meeting (n=jreznik@183.158.broadband4.iol.cz). [Út čec 29 2008] [20:03:46] Téma Téma kanálu je "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule". [Út čec 29 2008] [20:03:46] Téma Téma nastavil stickster dne 29.7.2008 17:04:44. [Út čec 29 2008] [20:03:46] Režim Režimy kanálů: žádné zprávy zvenčí, barvy nepovoleny [Út čec 29 2008] [20:03:46] Vytvořeno Tento kanál byl vytvořen 18.1.2007 20:10:56. [Út čec 29 2008] [20:04:34] Připojit se JSchmitt has joined this channel (n=s4504kr@p4FDD1C98.dip0.t-ipconnect.de). [Út čec 29 2008] [20:05:28] Připojit se rnorwood_ has joined this channel (n=rnorwood@nat/redhat/x-e3c9664ae6628620). [Út čec 29 2008] [20:13:01] Přezdívka stickster je nyní znám jako stickster_afk. [Út čec 29 2008] [20:19:12] Quit rnorwood has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [Út čec 29 2008] [20:22:41] Připojit se che has joined this channel (n=rkastl@redhat/che). [Út čec 29 2008] [20:26:47] Připojit se gregdek has joined this channel (n=gdk@nat/redhat/x-d3d9a849d9be42de). [Út čec 29 2008] [20:28:36] Quit No5251 has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [Út čec 29 2008] [20:35:09] Quit themayor has left this server (Connection reset by peer). [Út čec 29 2008] [20:35:36] Připojit se themayor has joined this channel (n=jack@ool-18b901c3.dyn.optonline.net). [Út čec 29 2008] [20:46:40] Quit themayor has left this server. [Út čec 29 2008] [20:48:45] Quit hanthana has left this server ("Leaving"). [Út čec 29 2008] [20:54:12] Připojit se GeroldKa has joined this channel (n=GeroldKa@fedora/geroldka). *** Logfile started *** on Út srp 19 17:55:56 2008 [Út srp 19 2008] [17:55:56] Připojit se You have joined the channel #fedora-meeting (n=jreznik@183.158.broadband4.iol.cz). [Út srp 19 2008] [17:55:56] Téma Téma kanálu je "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule". [Út srp 19 2008] [17:55:56] Téma Téma nastavil poelcat dne 19.8.2008 17:03:22. [Út srp 19 2008] [17:55:58] Režim Režimy kanálů: žádné zprávy zvenčí, barvy nepovoleny [Út srp 19 2008] [17:55:58] Vytvořeno Tento kanál byl vytvořen 18.1.2007 20:10:56. [Út srp 19 2008] [17:56:03] CTCP Received Version request from freenode-connect. [Út srp 19 2008] [17:56:05] Kanál [freenode-info] if you need to send private messages, please register: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg [Út srp 19 2008] [18:00:42] CTCP Received Version request from freenode-connect. *** Logfile started *** on Út srp 19 18:00:54 2008 [Út srp 19 2008] [18:00:54] Připojit se You have joined the channel #fedora-meeting (n=jreznik@183.158.broadband4.iol.cz). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:00:54] Téma Téma kanálu je "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule". [Út srp 19 2008] [18:00:54] Téma Téma nastavil poelcat dne 19.8.2008 17:03:22. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:00:55] Režim Režimy kanálů: žádné zprávy zvenčí, barvy nepovoleny [Út srp 19 2008] [18:00:55] Vytvořeno Tento kanál byl vytvořen 18.1.2007 20:10:56. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:01:15] Quit giallu has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:01:16] Error Nejste v #fedora-kde. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:02:06] Quit tc1415 has left this server (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:02:08] Time for the KDE SIG meeting... [Út srp 19 2008] [18:02:15] Připojit se tc1415 has joined this channel (n=blewis@host86-136-89-132.range86-136.btcentralplus.com). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:02:20] k, here [Út srp 19 2008] [18:02:49] Téma Kevin_Kofler nastavil téma kanálu na "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-08-19 - Init". [Út srp 19 2008] [18:02:52] Who's present? [Út srp 19 2008] [18:03:11] present [Út srp 19 2008] [18:03:52] present [Út srp 19 2008] [18:04:04] present [Út srp 19 2008] [18:04:24] Quit nphilipp has left this server ("Leaving"). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:04:52] Připojit se balor has joined this channel (n=balor@gimili.plus.com). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:07:51] Hmmm, ltinkl doesn't appear to be here yet though he's online in #fedora-kde (but hasn't reacted to my ping yet), I don't know if svahl is going to come today, rdieter already said beforehand he might miss or be late. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:08:38] Last week was mostly discussion between svahl and me, with SMParrish also intervening. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:08:47] Last week's log: https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/0/03/KDE-SIG-2008-08-12.txt [Út srp 19 2008] [18:08:48] (at fedoraproject.org) [Út srp 19 2008] [18:09:06] Připojit se couf has joined this channel (n=bart@fedora/couf). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:10:12] Kevin_Kofler: does the patch fix the problem in phonon? [Út srp 19 2008] [18:10:51] than: The phonon and kdebase-runtime patches together fix it for me. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:11:14] The GStreamer backend is still weird, but I don't think we can make it any less weird. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:11:17] i still saw sound problem on my local machine now and then. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:11:21] Přezdívka stickster je nyní znám jako stickster_food. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:11:35] i will try the new package [Út srp 19 2008] [18:11:45] That's why I made it the longer package name again so yum will pick phonon-backend-xine instead. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:12:00] But if you already updated from testing, you probably have only the GStreamer backend. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:12:35] So yum --enablerepo=updates-testing install phonon-backend-xine (and KDE will prefer the Xine one, another reason why I made it the default again in the new build). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:13:41] For those only using stable updates, yum will do the right thing with the new Phonon build which renames -gst back to -gstreamer so it's the longer name again. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:13:57] For those who updated from testing already, they'll have to install phonon-backend-xine by hand to get it back. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:14:45] the patched pkgs work for me also, after installing phonon-backend-xine [Út srp 19 2008] [18:15:52] Téma Kevin_Kofler nastavil téma kanálu na "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-08-19 - KDE 4.1 in Fedora 9 (moving to stable updates)". [Út srp 19 2008] [18:16:00] So this brings us to our first topic: KDE 4.1 in Fedora 9 (moving to stable updates) [Út srp 19 2008] [18:16:07] Too bad rdieter and ltinkl aren't present. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:16:25] So we were pretty much stuck due to the infrastructure outages. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:16:36] Koji itself is now up again, but all the build hosts still aren't. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:16:56] So we still can't edit the update right now because there's nothing to process tag move requests from Bodhi. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:17:08] Kevin_Kofler: it's bad [Út srp 19 2008] [18:17:09] And no push can happen anyway, for the same reason. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:17:33] Připojit se jwilliam has joined this channel (n=jwilliam@jwilliam.dsl.xmission.com). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:17:34] What I want to do is edit the update with the latest builds as soon as the infrastructure permits. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:17:49] Kevin_Kofler: +1 [Út srp 19 2008] [18:18:29] Quit couf has left this server ("leaving"). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:18:35] Then the big question is: do another push to testing and lose another few days, possibly an entire week depending on timing (we already lost one because of the infrastructure breakdown) or risk a push straight to stable (saving time). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:18:41] Připojit se Nirmal has joined this channel (n=npathak@nat/redhat-in/x-63717db5e590d608). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:18:58] rdieter suggested the push straight to stable as an option in an earlier discussion on #fedora-kde. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:19:01] kde-4.1.1 will be released soon. i hope i will move it in update before 4.1.1 will be released [Út srp 19 2008] [18:19:23] So put the latest builds in and go straight to stable? [Út srp 19 2008] [18:19:31] yes [Út srp 19 2008] [18:19:33] Připojit se couf has joined this channel (n=bart@fedora/couf). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:20:02] I must say I'm also fed up of waiting, though I'm a bit nervous because of the few testing the updates get. On the other hand, I don't think longer testing time will help much there. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:20:51] Quit fab has left this server (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:21:19] Nobody even looked at the Phonon device priorities before I ran a routine test on F8 (which got no testing at all before, I think, by the way - not that I really blame people, there's not much KDE 4 stuff worth testing in F8, mostly just libs, only Dolphin and KMediaFactory in a third-party repo). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:22:09] it doesn't make sense to have it in testing more than 2 weeks [Út srp 19 2008] [18:22:20] 1 week for testing is enough [Út srp 19 2008] [18:22:22] I wish I'd have had the time to do that simple testing sooner. Anyway, now it's done and the issues I found are fixed. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:22:28] Připojit se gvarisco has joined this channel (n=gvarisco@nat/redhat/x-d6cb8022c5808df8). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:22:50] Quit hanthana has left this server ("Leaving"). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:23:44] But I only tested things on F8, I didn't do any testing of my own on F9 yet, I didn't have the time and probably won't have it tonight either. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:24:25] Odejít IgniFerroque has left this channel ("Konversation terminated!"). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:24:38] Still, with all the time the update spent in testing, I also think it's time to move along. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:24:58] We can always push another update to fix bugs found too late. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:25:28] Připojit se mccann has joined this channel (n=jmccann@66.187.234.199). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:25:53] i agree with you [Út srp 19 2008] [18:26:45] for me it's ok [Út srp 19 2008] [18:27:06] Téma Kevin_Kofler nastavil téma kanálu na "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-08-19 - Packaging plasmoids? (naming, stability)". [Út srp 19 2008] [18:27:12] The next topic is: Packaging plasmoids? (naming, stability) [Út srp 19 2008] [18:27:25] This has been put up by svahl, unfortunately he's not present tonight. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:27:50] I'm not sure we should do any decision there with svahl, rdieter and ltinkl all absent. :-( [Út srp 19 2008] [18:27:55] Quit themayor has left this server. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:28:17] we can use the namieschema that florian suggested [Út srp 19 2008] [18:28:48] I think the kde-plasma-* scheme which Florian Sievert is using makes sense. http://www.floriansievert.de/linux/repo/ [Út srp 19 2008] [18:29:09] I'm not against another prefix though as long as it's consistent. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:29:53] I also wonder if this should involve FPC or if it's just wasting their time as there's no exceptions to any guidelines there, just a simple naming convention. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:29:58] wouldn't "kde-plasmoid-*" be more accurate? [Út srp 19 2008] [18:30:10] Připojit se hanthana_ has joined this channel (n=hanthana@192.248.92.131). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:30:10] Připojit se hanthana has joined this channel (n=hanthana@192.248.92.131). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:30:23] replica: Maybe. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:30:25] opensuse uses kde4-plasmoid [Út srp 19 2008] [18:30:41] That's why I'm not a big fan of making a decision with half of the key people absent. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:30:51] Quit hanthana_ has left this server (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:31:04] Especially rdieter who's our FPC guy. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:31:04] kde4- doesn't make sense because there's no plasmanoid for KDE3 [Út srp 19 2008] [18:31:06] because "plasma" could mean more than plasmoid imo... like extensions to plasma itself [Út srp 19 2008] [18:31:25] replica: But do we want different naming schemes for plasmoids and other plasma stuff? [Út srp 19 2008] [18:31:38] kde4- in suse means thats package for kde4, for us kde- is sufficient [Út srp 19 2008] [18:31:43] For example, upstream uses kdeplasma-addons rather than kdeplasmoids because it doesn't contain only plasmoid. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:32:08] hm [Út srp 19 2008] [18:32:31] But I'm OK with kde-plasmoid too. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:32:42] Připojit se spoleeba has joined this channel (n=one@fedora/Jef). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:32:44] What I don't want is half of the packages using kde-plasma and the other using kde-plasmoid. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:32:45] Přezdívka rdieter_away je nyní znám jako rdieter. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:32:51] it's fine with me too [Út srp 19 2008] [18:32:55] * rdieter walks in late. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:33:11] rdieter: Oh, I'd love your opinion on the plasmoid naming scheme. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:33:48] it's known as plasmoid by people... on kde-look.org i'm looking for plasmoid [Út srp 19 2008] [18:34:18] shrug, do we need a scheme at all? could we just use the upstream names? are there any concrete examples to base judgements on yet? [Út srp 19 2008] [18:34:27] Připojit se ltinkl has joined this channel (n=ltinkl@194.212.22.14). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:34:44] See the ones on http://www.floriansievert.de/linux/repo/english.html [Út srp 19 2008] [18:34:56] He currently uses a kde-plasma-* naming scheme. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:35:17] replica suggested kde-plasmoid-*, and than and jreznik liked it. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:35:36] I don't care either way, I just don't want half of the packages using one prefix and half of them the other. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:35:54] sure - one prefix or no prefix [Út srp 19 2008] [18:36:05] * ltinkl is quasi present [Út srp 19 2008] [18:36:20] heck, i'd even say just plasmoid-* (plasma will be split out soon anyway, no? Or are these only usable on a kde4/plasma desktop)? [Út srp 19 2008] [18:37:04] Přezdívka stickster_food je nyní znám jako stickster. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:37:07] rdieter: But what upstream names? If something is called playground/base/plasma/applets/networkmanager (real example), networkmanager is a bad name! [Út srp 19 2008] [18:37:22] And kde-playground-base-plasma-applets-networkmanager is a bit long. ;-) [Út srp 19 2008] [18:37:45] yeah, upstream names here are often bad: networkmanger, wifi, extract... [Út srp 19 2008] [18:37:54] my advice is not to package anything that's in playground... especially that networkmanager plasmoid ;) [Út srp 19 2008] [18:38:27] That's related to another question svahl raised last week: how to decide on whether a plasmoid is stable enough to be packaged for Fedora in the first place. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:38:37] IMHO that's something for the individual review request to decide. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:38:39] and the difference distinction between plasma-applet and plasmoid is unclear to me (if I understand correctly, are different). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:39:15] We don't have a global guideline there unfortunately, and I'm not sure how such a guideline would look specifically for Plasma (and it'd have to go through FPC to be in any way official anyway). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:39:35] Stability is of course a big issue for Plasma because a bad applet can crash all of Plasma. :-( [Út srp 19 2008] [18:40:04] i think - plasma-applet is more correct, plasmoid is visible part of plasma-applet another one can be data engine for plasma applet... as i understand it [Út srp 19 2008] [18:40:30] I always thought a plasmoid simply is a Plasma applet. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:40:45] If there's a distinction, I don't understand it either. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:40:49] Kevin_Kofler: no, that's one reason kdeplasmoids -> kdeplasma-addons rename [Út srp 19 2008] [18:41:03] -addons, not -applets. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:41:11] For the same reason it's not -plasmoids anymore. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:41:37] asiego said using "plasmoids" here was just plain wrong... so it was changed. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:41:57] ok, let's follow suit, I propose: kdeplasma-* prefix [Út srp 19 2008] [18:44:06] at least in cases where upstream names aren't unique (like examples mentioned earlier). Some cases, I'd argue, it's not needed, like lancelot, [Út srp 19 2008] [18:44:09] i feel if upstream isn't consulted about terminology here then there may be a big package renaming in fedora's future ;) [Út srp 19 2008] [18:44:40] replica: that too, of course, we're just brainstorming [Út srp 19 2008] [18:45:40] lancelot should also have a plasma-related prefix, it helps users who are browsing the repo to know what choices they have for plasmoid packages [Út srp 19 2008] [18:45:42] or just plasma-* [Út srp 19 2008] [18:45:50] so plasma-lancelot... [Út srp 19 2008] [18:45:53] I'd say asking at least on the kde-packagers list would make a heap of sense here (I can do it do, if no one else wants to lead the charge). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:47:34] rdieter: Sold. :-) Go ahead... [Út srp 19 2008] [18:47:49] okie dokie [Út srp 19 2008] [18:48:13] if you get 5 different answers there, you know you're screwed [Út srp 19 2008] [18:48:59] Připojit se wolfy has joined this channel (n=lonewolf@fedora/wolfy). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:49:54] OK, next topic. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:50:06] Téma Kevin_Kofler nastavil téma kanálu na "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-08-19 - Removing additional fonts on live images (fonts-ISO8859-2, madan-fonts, fonts-KOI8-R, fonts-KOI8-R-100dpi, tibetan-machine-uni-fonts)". [Út srp 19 2008] [18:50:09] Removing additional fonts on live images (fonts-ISO8859-2, madan-fonts, fonts-KOI8-R, fonts-KOI8-R-100dpi, tibetan-machine-uni-fonts) [Út srp 19 2008] [18:50:24] svahl put that up on the agenda, unfortunately he's not here tonight. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:51:15] To bring it in context, what was said last week was: [Út srp 19 2008] [18:51:16] [Di Aug 12 2008] [18:39:43] the third topic was a proposal by jeremy right before the alpha. In F10 the fonts-group should be enough and so the additional fonts on the live images could maybe be removed [Út srp 19 2008] [18:51:17] [Di Aug 12 2008] [18:41:13] I also think we can trim some redundant stuff there. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:51:17] [Di Aug 12 2008] [18:42:46] I'm not up-to-date to the rescent font discussions but I'll try to get into it for the next meeting [Út srp 19 2008] [18:51:34] +1, we make no bones about that our spin isn't localized and is English only anyway. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:51:53] I think the really needed local fonts are even in the fonts-group. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:52:12] Quit bpepple|lt has left this server ("Ex-Chat"). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:52:19] The offending ones are ones svahl additionally added in the past, based on recommendations from the l10n and Fonts SIG folks. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:52:29] Odejít wolfy has left this channel ("Memory fault -- core...uh...um...core... Oh dammit, I forget!"). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:52:39] But there are new defaults replacing some of them now. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:52:53] At least that's how I understand this issue. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:53:06] I'm sure svahl could tell you more, but unfortunately he's not here today. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:53:13] So let's bring this up again when he's present? [Út srp 19 2008] [18:53:30] nod, probably a good idea, no need to rush here. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:55:17] Téma Kevin_Kofler nastavil téma kanálu na "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-08-19 - Open Discussion". [Út srp 19 2008] [18:55:22] OK, we ran out of topics. [Út srp 19 2008] [18:56:38] Earlier, we talked about the KDE 4.1 update and than was in favor of pushing KDE 4.1 to stable as soon as we can edit it with the latest builds (the Phonon (phonon, kdebase-runtime) and Okular (kdegraphics) fixes). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:56:43] rdieter, ltinkl: Any objections? [Út srp 19 2008] [18:56:48] push push push [Út srp 19 2008] [18:57:27] Připojit se sharkcz has joined this channel (n=dan@plz1-v-4-17.static.adsl.vol.cz). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:58:09] Quit mbacovsk_ has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:59:43] Připojit se mbacovsk has joined this channel (n=mbacovsk@okr2fw.topnet.cz). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:59:53] Odejít smooge has left this channel ("-ENOTIME"). [Út srp 19 2008] [18:59:54] Quit hanthana has left this server ("Leaving"). [Út srp 19 2008] [19:00:29] Přezdívka Evil_Sonar_Chick je nyní znám jako Sonar_Gal. [Út srp 19 2008] [19:00:54] OK, anything else? We're out of time already. [Út srp 19 2008] [19:03:55] I'll take the silence as a "no". ;-) [Út srp 19 2008] [19:04:12] So that was it for today, for any further discussion, please use #fedora-kde. [Út srp 19 2008] [19:04:40] Téma Kevin_Kofler nastavil téma kanálu na "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule". *** Logfile started *** on Út zář 2 17:46:28 2008 [Út zář 2 2008] [17:46:28] Připojit se You have joined the channel #fedora-meeting (n=jreznik@183.158.broadband4.iol.cz). [Út zář 2 2008] [17:46:28] Téma Téma kanálu je "Infrastructure -- Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule". [Út zář 2 2008] [17:46:28] Téma Téma nastavil mmcgrath dne 28.8.2008 22:35:33. [Út zář 2 2008] [17:46:28] Režim Režimy kanálů: žádné zprávy zvenčí, barvy nepovoleny [Út zář 2 2008] [17:46:28] Vytvořeno Tento kanál byl vytvořen 18.1.2007 20:10:56. [Út zář 2 2008] [17:51:33] Připojit se wwoods_ has joined this channel (n=wwoods@user-10lfe35.cable.mindspring.com). [Út zář 2 2008] [17:52:20] Připojit se Kevin_Kofler has joined this channel (n=Kevin_Ko@chello213047068123.17.14.vie.surfer.at). [Út zář 2 2008] [17:56:50] Připojit se balor has joined this channel (n=balor@gimili.plus.com). [Út zář 2 2008] [17:57:55] Quit lfoppiano has left this server ("Ex-Chat"). [Út zář 2 2008] [17:58:14] Quit adrianr_ has left this server (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). [Út zář 2 2008] [17:58:39] Quit John5342_Away has left this server. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:03:18] Quit EXT4 has left this server (No route to host). [Út zář 2 2008] [18:03:28] Připojit se EXT4 has joined this channel (n=odane@69.9.98.21). [Út zář 2 2008] [18:04:35] Téma Kevin_Kofler nastavil téma kanálu na "KDE SIG Meeting - Init". [Út zář 2 2008] [18:04:44] Time for the KDE SIG meeting, who's present? [Út zář 2 2008] [18:05:22] present [Út zář 2 2008] [18:05:27] present [Út zář 2 2008] [18:05:31] * SMParrish here [Út zář 2 2008] [18:06:02] here [Út zář 2 2008] [18:06:30] Téma Kevin_Kofler nastavil téma kanálu na "KDE SIG Meeting - Agenda". [Út zář 2 2008] [18:06:56] So our first problem is that there's no wiki page for today's meeting yet, so what do we have to discuss in the first place? [Út zář 2 2008] [18:07:19] Připojit se kushal has joined this channel (n=kdas@122.169.91.215). [Út zář 2 2008] [18:07:48] KDE-4.1.1 update for F9 [Út zář 2 2008] [18:08:09] lancelot package for F10 [Út zář 2 2008] [18:08:26] There's also 3.5.10. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:08:38] lancelot is not part of KDE yet [Út zář 2 2008] [18:08:41] yes, 3.5.10 update for F8 [Út zář 2 2008] [18:09:00] lancelot will be part in KDE-4.2 [Út zář 2 2008] [18:09:08] Připojit se spoleeba has joined this channel (n=one@fedora/Jef). [Út zář 2 2008] [18:09:25] ATM we should package it as kde-plasme-lancelot separate [Út zář 2 2008] [18:09:29] but we can hava lanceloat package [Út zář 2 2008] [18:09:40] Téma Kevin_Kofler nastavil téma kanálu na "KDE SIG Meeting - Lancelot". [Út zář 2 2008] [18:09:55] Let's start with Lancelot as we're effectively already discussing it. :-) [Út zář 2 2008] [18:10:24] than: yes [Út zář 2 2008] [18:10:36] The Lancelot author has made a release of Lancelot for KDE 4.1, so I don't see a reason not to package it, of course as its own package. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:11:02] i already built it localy and played around with it. it's stable and works fine for me [Út zář 2 2008] [18:11:25] i don't see any problem why it's not icnluded in F10 [Út zář 2 2008] [18:11:27] The upstream author also considers it releasable, he wouldn't have made a 1.0 release otherwise. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:11:44] It's not included in KDE 4.1 only because he missed the 4.1 deadline by a few weeks. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:12:01] yes, but it will be part of 4.2 [Út zář 2 2008] [18:12:40] i will make review request for lancelot tomorrow [Út zář 2 2008] [18:12:55] anyone is willing to review it? [Út zář 2 2008] [18:13:35] If nobody else cares, I will. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:13:59] CC me on the review request and I'll have a look. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:14:21] Kevin_Kofler: thanks [Út zář 2 2008] [18:15:38] Téma Kevin_Kofler nastavil téma kanálu na "KDE SIG Meeting - KDE 4.1.1". [Út zář 2 2008] [18:15:44] OK, next topic: KDE 4.1.1. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:16:08] i don't know when the kde-4.1.0 will be moved F9-updates, if it takes long we will probably kick it [Út zář 2 2008] [18:16:18] and replace with KDE-4.1.1 [Út zář 2 2008] [18:16:36] I'd say we keep 4.1.0 queued for stable and we queue 4.1.1 for testing as soon as it's ready. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:16:46] If 4.1.1 hits testing at the same time 4.1.0 hits stable, that's OK. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:16:56] it's fine with me [Út zář 2 2008] [18:17:08] If there are still no pushes a week from now, we can rediscuss what to do. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:17:10] +1 for Lancelot [Út zář 2 2008] [18:17:54] I've seen than has committed 4.1.1 stuff to devel and F-9, how far are we with the builds? [Út zář 2 2008] [18:18:37] By the way, the F8 KDE 4 development platform stuff also needs updating, I can take care of that, but I'm currently working on 3.5.10. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:18:48] kdelibs, kdepimlibs, kdebase, kdebase-runtime, kdebase-workspace are built in rawhide [Út zář 2 2008] [18:19:16] Kevin_Kofler: i will take care of it [Út zář 2 2008] [18:19:19] Kevin_Kofler: is qgtkstyle working for you, i see we have a bug open but i can't reproduce yet [Út zář 2 2008] [18:20:11] there's some broken dependencies in rawhide that causes the failure of KDE build [Út zář 2 2008] [18:20:40] something in hal and libvolume_id, i'm working on that [Út zář 2 2008] [18:21:15] FYI, these are the packages I had to update for the 4.1.0 update: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F8/FEDORA-2008-6876 [Út zář 2 2008] [18:22:00] i hope to get KDE-4.1.1 ready in rawhide today or tomorrow. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:22:02] Quit mdomsch has left this server ("Leaving"). [Út zář 2 2008] [18:22:17] OK, great. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:23:28] after that i will start to build 4.1.1 for F9 update [Út zář 2 2008] [18:23:56] it should be done before this weekend [Út zář 2 2008] [18:23:58] i need to build a new qgtkstyle there are *many* bug fixes [Út zář 2 2008] [18:25:07] http://code.google.com/p/qgtkstyle/issues/list?can=1&q=&sort=status&colspec=ID%20Type%20Status%20Priority%20Milestone%20Owner%20Summary [Út zář 2 2008] [18:25:30] Připojit se ke4qqq_ has joined this channel (n=ke4qqq@151.sub-75-201-62.myvzw.com). [Út zář 2 2008] [18:25:56] Téma Kevin_Kofler nastavil téma kanálu na "KDE SIG Meeting - KDE 3.5.10". [Út zář 2 2008] [18:26:02] OK, next topic: KDE 3.5.10. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:26:48] So the stuff which is still 3.5.10 in Rawhide has been updated, kdepim 3.5.10 has been committed in F9, but not built, pending dependencies to be built and tagged override. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:27:03] And all the F8-only stuff hasn't been touched yet. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:27:58] I'll be working with rdieter to get it completed, as previously discussed. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:28:20] Kevin_Kofler: great [Út zář 2 2008] [18:28:29] I can help too [Út zář 2 2008] [18:29:03] jreznik: it's great if you and Lukas could help here [Út zář 2 2008] [18:29:35] Most of the time will be spent waiting for rdieter or some other rel-eng guy to tag dependencies into dist-f8-override. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:30:25] Kevin_Kofler: yes, it's annoying :) [Út zář 2 2008] [18:30:56] probably Jesse could help us here [Út zář 2 2008] [18:31:33] I don't think he can do anything more than giving out override tags. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:32:10] Quit ke4qqq has left this server (Nick collision from services.). [Út zář 2 2008] [18:32:18] Přezdívka ke4qqq_ je nyní znám jako ke4qqq. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:32:47] Doing things differently would need major Koji changes, it's not something which can be done as an exception once. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:33:26] Připojit se kital has joined this channel (n=Joerg_Si@fedora/kital). [Út zář 2 2008] [18:34:38] FYI, I'm updating kdelibs/F-8 and kdelibs3/F-9 now, I'll build as soon as the override tag takes effect. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:35:45] Quit Nirmal has left this server ("Leaving"). [Út zář 2 2008] [18:35:47] Quit themayor has left this server. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:36:55] Téma Kevin_Kofler nastavil téma kanálu na "KDE SIG Meeting - Open Discussion". [Út zář 2 2008] [18:37:10] OK, I think that's it for the topics, anything else to discuss? [Út zář 2 2008] [18:37:25] FUDcon 2008 Brno? [Út zář 2 2008] [18:37:36] Kevin_Kofler: should i take care of kde-i18n for you ? [Út zář 2 2008] [18:37:55] than: That would be great indeed (huge tarballs take ages to upload from here). [Út zář 2 2008] [18:38:20] Kevin_Kofler: i know, it's why i asked you ;-) [Út zář 2 2008] [18:39:31] Připojit se warren has joined this channel (n=warren@redhat/wombat/warren). [Út zář 2 2008] [18:40:41] Quit kushal has left this server (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). [Út zář 2 2008] [18:42:33] Quit hanthana has left this server (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). [Út zář 2 2008] [18:42:37] Připojit se hanthana has joined this channel (n=hanthana@124.43.37.165). [Út zář 2 2008] [18:42:51] Kevin_Kofler: will you attend to FUDcon 2008 Brno? [Út zář 2 2008] [18:44:26] I'll attend on Saturday unless something bad happens, Brno is really close from Vienna, I can take an early morning train in and a late evening train back. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:44:59] Kevin_Kofler: I have been in vienna this weekend :) it's really close [Út zář 2 2008] [18:45:32] we have prepared presentation with ltinkl so is there something we should mention about KDE in Fedora? [Út zář 2 2008] [18:45:43] http://jreznik.fedorapeople.org/fudcon2008/ [Út zář 2 2008] [18:46:19] some more secret informations from our kitchen :) [Út zář 2 2008] [18:46:24] Připojit se ke4qqq_ has joined this channel (n=ke4qqq@64.89.94.194.nw.nuvox.net). [Út zář 2 2008] [18:46:39] jreznik: it's great that you and lukas make the presentation about KDE [Út zář 2 2008] [18:47:25] Quit coestar has left this server (Connection timed out). [Út zář 2 2008] [18:48:23] "4.0 default for Fedora 9, 4.1 for Fedora 10" - maybe should mention that 4.1 is going to hit F9 updates ASAP? [Út zář 2 2008] [18:48:41] Kevin_Kofler: ok [Út zář 2 2008] [18:48:52] Quit ke4qqq has left this server (Nick collision from services.). [Út zář 2 2008] [18:48:59] Přezdívka ke4qqq_ je nyní znám jako ke4qqq. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:49:07] and 4.1.1 for F10? [Út zář 2 2008] [18:49:15] jreznik: yes [Út zář 2 2008] [18:49:40] Phonon (since Qt 4.3) - actually since KDE 4.0 and Qt 4.4, respectively. Though that may be too complex to fit on that slide. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:50:15] Well, if we mention the point releases, then F9 came with 4.0.3 actually. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:51:05] Připojit se Nirmal has joined this channel (n=npathak@nat/redhat-in/x-ec36e7d1c65c6f44). [Út zář 2 2008] [18:51:45] it's why I need review from you, I'm quite new in Fedora... and it's based on older presentations by ltinkl [Út zář 2 2008] [18:53:14] "– to target­link­libraries add ${KDE4_PHONON_LIBS}" - that was for KDE 4.0's Phonon, now that it's standalone, there's a separate FindPhonon.cmake, so one should use FindPackage(Phonon REQUIRED) and use ${PHONON_LIBS}, not ${KDE4_PHONON_LIBS}. [Út zář 2 2008] [18:55:39] The "Plasma panel with Kick Off menu" screenshot doesn't really show much of Kickoff. ;-) [Út zář 2 2008] [18:55:49] (And isn't it "Kickoff" rather than "Kick Off"?) [Út zář 2 2008] [18:57:02] On the slide about Decibel etc.: "XMPP, Jingle a SIP", that "a" should probably be an "&". ;-) [Út zář 2 2008] [18:57:10] Připojit se LetoTo1 has joined this channel (n=paul@TOROON63-1176043580.sdsl.bell.ca). [Út zář 2 2008] [18:57:32] of course & ;) [Út zář 2 2008] [19:00:33] Quit J5 has left this server ("Ex-Chat"). [Út zář 2 2008] [19:00:42] jreznik: Future, probably add support devicekit/PolicyKit-Integration [Út zář 2 2008] [19:02:01] Quit spoleeba has left this server ("Leaving"). [Út zář 2 2008] [19:02:26] jreznik: branding-mockup-kickoff*.jpeg looks nice :) [Út zář 2 2008] [19:03:40] Připojit se che has joined this channel (n=rkastl@redhat/che). [Út zář 2 2008] [19:03:54] than: which one looks better? ;) [Út zář 2 2008] [19:04:25] Our meeting time is up, so can we discuss this on #fedora-kde? [Út zář 2 2008] [19:04:49] it's the branding-mockup-kickoff1.jpeg [Út zář 2 2008] [19:05:13] Kevin_Kofler: ok and thanks for review! looking forward to meet you! [Út zář 2 2008] [19:05:58] Just don't forget that the logo and the logotype (that "fedora" text in the characteristic font) need to be in fedora-logos and that there has to be some fallback for the generic-logos case. [Út zář 2 2008] [19:06:38] If the upstream code will just fallback to KDE branding, that's fine, otherwise some symlink which replaces the Fedora logo with the KDE logo will be needed in generic-logos. [Út zář 2 2008] [19:07:23] Připojit se LetoTo2 has joined this channel (n=paul@TOROON63-1176043580.sdsl.bell.ca). [Út zář 2 2008] [19:07:26] it's branding.svg in default theme, prepared for branding [Út zář 2 2008] [19:07:43] Quit LetoTo1 has left this server ("Leaving."). [Út zář 2 2008] [19:07:56] actually it's button with kde.org link [Út zář 2 2008] [19:15:59] Připojit se spoleeba has joined this channel (n=one@fedora/Jef). [Út zář 2 2008] [19:16:02] Quit tc141516 has left this server (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). [Út zář 2 2008] [19:16:32] Připojit se tc141516 has joined this channel (i=blewis@host86-136-89-132.range86-136.btcentralplus.com). [Út zář 2 2008] [19:17:24] Připojit se lfoppiano has joined this channel (n=lfoppian@unaffiliated/whitenoise/x-898631). [Út zář 2 2008] [19:26:44] Quit LetoTo2 has left this server (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). [Út zář 2 2008] [19:27:27] Quit fbijlsma_ has left this server ("Leaving"). [Út zář 2 2008] [19:29:18] Quit SMParrish has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Út zář 2 2008] [19:29:26] Připojit se tecnmmag has joined this channel (n=tecnmmag@206.251.250.217). [Út zář 2 2008] [19:29:45] Připojit se shandflm has joined this channel (n=shandflm@209.216.196.2). 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[Út zář 2 2008] [20:14:25] Připojit se mdomsch has joined this channel (n=Matt_Dom@cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com). [Út zář 2 2008] [20:16:34] Připojit se coestar has joined this channel (n=justin@wsip-98-174-230-194.ph.ph.cox.net). [Út zář 2 2008] [20:19:02] Přezdívka dwmw2 je nyní znám jako dwmw2_gone. [Út zář 2 2008] [20:27:59] Připojit se smooge has joined this channel (n=smooge@int.smoogespace.com). [Út zář 2 2008] [20:29:52] Připojit se J5 has joined this channel (n=quintice@c-76-24-17-105.hsd1.ma.comcast.net). [Út zář 2 2008] [20:40:40] Připojit se petreu has joined this channel (n=peter@fedora/petreu). [Út zář 2 2008] [20:44:38] CTCP Received Version request from freenode-connect. [Út zář 2 2008] [20:44:38] Upozornění -NickServ- jreznik is not a registered nickname. [Út zář 2 2008] [20:44:39] Připojit se You have joined the channel #fedora-meeting (n=jreznik@183.158.broadband4.iol.cz). [Út zář 2 2008] [20:44:40] Téma Téma kanálu je "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule". [Út zář 2 2008] [20:44:40] Téma Téma nastavil Kevin_Kofler dne 2.9.2008 19:44:05. [Út zář 2 2008] [20:44:40] 328 #kde http://www.kde.org *** Logfile started *** on Út říj 14 17:54:58 2008 [Út říj 14 2008] [17:54:58] Připojit se You have joined the channel #fedora-meeting (n=jreznik@183.158.broadband4.iol.cz). [Út říj 14 2008] [17:54:58] Téma Téma kanálu je "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule". [Út říj 14 2008] [17:54:58] Téma Téma nastavil poelcat dne 14.10.2008 17:09:46. [Út říj 14 2008] [17:54:58] Režim Režimy kanálů: žádné zprávy zvenčí, barvy nepovoleny [Út říj 14 2008] [17:54:58] Vytvořeno Tento kanál byl vytvořen 18.1.2007 20:10:56. [Út říj 14 2008] [17:57:03] Připojit se smooge has joined this channel (n=smooge@nausicaa.unm.edu). [Út říj 14 2008] [17:57:44] Připojit se Kevin_Kofler has joined this channel (n=Kevin_Ko@chello213047068123.17.14.vie.surfer.at). [Út říj 14 2008] [17:57:58] Připojit se pusling has joined this channel (i=pusling@77.75.162.71). [Út říj 14 2008] [17:59:30] Připojit se svahl has joined this channel (n=svahl@dslb-088-070-020-062.pools.arcor-ip.net). [Út říj 14 2008] [18:01:01] Quit nphilipp has left this server ("Leaving"). [Út říj 14 2008] [18:01:30] KDE SIG Meeting start [Út říj 14 2008] [18:01:46] Téma rdieter nastavil téma kanálu na "-- KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-14 -- Init". [Út říj 14 2008] [18:02:07] who's present today? ping: Kevin_Kofler, than, ltinkl, jreznik, kde*foo [Út říj 14 2008] [18:02:12] Present. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:02:17] present (hopefully during the whole meeting because of my internet connection problems) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:02:23] present [Út říj 14 2008] [18:02:31] Připojit se darthmarth37|Wk has joined this channel (n=darthmar@leiber.math.umn.edu). [Út říj 14 2008] [18:02:32] here [Út říj 14 2008] [18:02:36] Přezdívka ianweller_afk je nyní znám jako ianweller. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:02:36] present [Út říj 14 2008] [18:03:39] Připojit se No5251 has joined this channel (n=No5251@p50990d02.dip0.t-ipconnect.de). [Út říj 14 2008] [18:04:39] Připojit se ltinkl has joined this channel (n=ltinkl@194.212.22.14). [Út říj 14 2008] [18:04:53] Připojit se sdziallas has joined this channel (n=sebastia@p57A2D75B.dip.t-dialin.net). [Út říj 14 2008] [18:05:15] Přezdívka stickster je nyní znám jako stickster_food. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:05:19] ok, let's get started. topic 1: Replacing gnome-packagekit with kpackagekit on KDE live images? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:05:25] Téma rdieter nastavil téma kanálu na "-- KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-14 -- Replacing gnome-packagekit with kpackagekit on KDE live images?". [Út říj 14 2008] [18:05:38] who's tried it out, tested it so faR [Út říj 14 2008] [18:05:44] so far? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:06:20] rdieter: I tested it today [Út říj 14 2008] [18:06:34] and? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:06:54] I had one crash during system update but I couldn't reproduce it with GDB [Út říj 14 2008] [18:07:09] there is GUI problem with showing updates [Út říj 14 2008] [18:07:16] http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenkpackagekitcp3.png [Út říj 14 2008] [18:07:26] comps will take some work, looks like gnome-packagekit is in both base-x and admin-tools groups [Út říj 14 2008] [18:07:36] It was working fine here for updating two machines. One minor issue was that the updates are not shown in alphabetically order. One bigger issue was my test to add a packages some minutes ago: the dependency check was ongoing for more than 5 minutes before I stopped it. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:08:10] dev is aware of the gui issue and should have a fix out soon [Út říj 14 2008] [18:08:14] I woulnd't blame kpackagekit for the dependency check slowness [Út říj 14 2008] [18:08:15] and systray icon dissapeared when getting information but it was still running [Út říj 14 2008] [18:09:12] kpackagekit seems here to be slower than gnome-packagekit, but that's just a "feeling" [Út říj 14 2008] [18:09:18] my f10 box at home seems semi-stable, so I should be able to test it myself soonish [Út říj 14 2008] [18:09:23] I suggest we try making the change in time for Snapshot 2. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:09:27] So people can test it. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:09:33] svahl: it's slower [Út říj 14 2008] [18:09:35] +1 [Út říj 14 2008] [18:09:38] And we can revert if the results are bad. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:09:43] we can still rollback if needed [Út říj 14 2008] [18:09:45] +1 [Út říj 14 2008] [18:09:54] +1 [Út říj 14 2008] [18:09:58] Připojit se MathStuf has joined this channel (n=MathStuf@goldenrod-42.dynamic2.rpi.edu). [Út říj 14 2008] [18:10:00] then ok for me [Út říj 14 2008] [18:10:22] +1 [Út říj 14 2008] [18:10:22] ok, *how* to enable it, on kde spin only via .ks, or comps in kde-desktop group? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:10:24] and I don't like GUI - but I know, it's not final product... [Út říj 14 2008] [18:10:32] latter would get us more testing, then how to deal with issue of having both gnome-packagekit and kpackagekit installed [Út říj 14 2008] [18:10:47] rdieter: autostart [Út říj 14 2008] [18:10:50] Kick gnome-packagekit out of base-x comps? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:11:01] Or maybe make it conditional on the absence of kpackagekit? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:11:02] Kevin_Kofler: +1 [Út říj 14 2008] [18:11:11] than: kpackage include an autostart file that disables gnome-packagekit for kde only? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:11:14] And unconditional only in the GNOME group. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:11:38] if via comps: We should inform fedora-devel-announce and fedora-test-list of this change (just because gnome-packagekit shows the updates earlier than kpackagekit) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:12:09] Oh, and we should fix the defaults not to do security updates without asking. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:12:15] Kevin_Kofler: I don't think that kind of comps conditional is supported (but could be wrong) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:12:36] Přezdívka dwmw2 je nyní znám jako dwmw2_gone. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:12:56] Kevin_Kofler: yes, I saw it - no automatic updates pls [Út říj 14 2008] [18:13:01] rdieter: we've requested to remove "OnlyShowIn=GNOME;XFCE;" in /etc/xdg/autostart/gpk-update-icon.desktop for F9. Maybe just revert the change? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:13:08] What's the best way to change the default? kde-settings? Or just patching the code? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:13:25] svahl: so, make gnome-packagekit completely unusable under kde? ugh [Út říj 14 2008] [18:14:00] well, good point [Út říj 14 2008] [18:14:40] Well, it's how upstream sets things up. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:14:53] Upstream gnome-packagekit still has the OnlyShowIn. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:14:59] It's only patched out in the Fedora packages. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:15:17] ok, I think we agree to move forward with enabling it, we'll figure out the details post-meeting. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:15:38] next topic: Release notes [Út říj 14 2008] [18:15:47] Téma rdieter nastavil téma kanálu na "-- KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-14 -- Release notes". [Út říj 14 2008] [18:15:58] Kevin_Kofler: ? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:16:18] Quit ianweller has left this server (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). [Út říj 14 2008] [18:16:48] I updated everything, jreznik wrote a paragraph on Plasma. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:16:56] They should be complete now. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:17:02] Připojit se Matias_Arg has joined this channel (n=Administ@host106.190-31-190.telecom.net.ar). [Út říj 14 2008] [18:17:13] Připojit se ianweller has joined this channel (n=ianwelle@fedora/ianweller). [Út říj 14 2008] [18:17:21] yay, any other docs in need of love (that you know of)? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:17:35] desktop user guide? (haven't checked it) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:17:43] Kevin_Kofler: I think so, I compared it to my personal notes... it was very difficult for me to track all changes, thx Kevin_Kofler, next time I'll be ready :) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:17:45] Odejít Matias_Arg has left this channel. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:18:22] I guess the DUG is still completely outdated. :-( [Út říj 14 2008] [18:19:05] svahl: desktop user guide still untouched [Út říj 14 2008] [18:19:22] can someone look over the dug, and get started on updating it's content? It's a large task, but any little bit would help. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:20:10] It's really large task and I'm not sure about my English skills... but I can help with help with someone who speaks English better than me [Út říj 14 2008] [18:20:28] in particular, I'd be happier if we could task someone to simply coordinate the effort, jreznik, can you help lead here? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:21:04] rdieter: ok, again I'll prepare wiki page [Út říj 14 2008] [18:22:33] thx, maybe a good idea to chop the job into smaller manageable pieces to assign to different folks. If you can do the chopping, feel free to assign a job to me. hopefully, others will volunteer to help too. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:23:00] Připojit se ldimaggi_office has joined this channel (n=ldimaggi@nat/redhat/x-5d3a6b55edddf450). [Út říj 14 2008] [18:23:13] make sense? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:23:37] Quit ldimaggi_office has left this server (Client Quit). [Út říj 14 2008] [18:24:07] +1 (I could also try to help with a smaller piece) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:24:07] rdieter: yes, it's exactly what I think about it... smaller pieces... [Út říj 14 2008] [18:25:49] ok, let's go with that, moving on. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:25:50] it's too much for one man [Út říj 14 2008] [18:25:53] ok [Út říj 14 2008] [18:26:03] next topic: artwork: kdm, ksplash, kwin background [Út říj 14 2008] [18:26:14] who's working on what, and where are we? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:26:20] Kushal is working on the KDM theme. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:26:38] Připojit se racor has joined this channel (n=rc040203@HSI-KBW-078-043-056-093.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de). [Út říj 14 2008] [18:26:41] Připojit se lvillani has joined this channel (n=lorenzo@kde/developer/lvillani). [Út říj 14 2008] [18:26:46] There are several display glitches left. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:26:56] I pinged kushal [Út říj 14 2008] [18:27:20] Kevin_Kofler: where can we get the source of KDM theme? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:27:24] ksplash - only widescreen display support is missing [Út říj 14 2008] [18:27:40] jreznik: And all the display glitches? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:28:07] than: http://www.kushaldas.in/tmp/solarmania.tar.bz2 [Út říj 14 2008] [18:28:18] Quit racor has left this server (Client Quit). [Út říj 14 2008] [18:28:37] once we have it working, where/how to package it? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:28:48] Separate package. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:28:49] Kevin_Kofler: I'm helping Kushal with artwork but now I don't know what's the current state... [Út říj 14 2008] [18:28:53] There are no Fedora logos in it. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:29:00] isn't there a solar-backgrounds pkg already? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:29:15] Well, that's a backgrounds package. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:29:21] Not a KDM theme one. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:29:22] rdieter: last time I've checked it, it was very outdated [Út říj 14 2008] [18:29:37] But the KDM theme package can require the backgrounds package and symlink the backgrounds from there if needed. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:29:39] Připojit se kushal has joined this channel (n=kdas@122.169.5.69). [Út říj 14 2008] [18:29:42] But it needs to be updated, of course. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:29:50] sorry for being late, was afk [Út říj 14 2008] [18:30:01] kushal: Hi! We're currently talking about your KDM theme. :-) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:30:03] well, thats where the kwin background should go probably -> solar-backgrounds [Út říj 14 2008] [18:30:09] Yes, we need one package with all backgrounds for KDM, KSplash and background [Út říj 14 2008] [18:30:27] looks like we need a point-man (err... person) to lead artwork, volunteers? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:30:34] kushal: What's the state of the theme now? How many display glitches are there still there? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:30:53] jreznik: I'm not sure one package with everything is the smart way to go. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:30:58] Kevin_Kofler, that wrong color problem is still there [Út říj 14 2008] [18:31:04] Sure, it means fewer review requests, but... [Út říj 14 2008] [18:31:07] Kevin_Kofler: only backgrounds [Út říj 14 2008] [18:31:08] Kevin_Kofler, I fixed the font size [Út říj 14 2008] [18:31:14] Quit giallu has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [Út říj 14 2008] [18:31:28] and moved the labels as left oriented (was in middle) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:31:32] then one package for KDM theme and one for KSplash theme? or only one kde-solar-theme package? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:31:43] I would like our "artwork" leader to coordinate our efforts with #fedora-artwork and other solar-related packaging. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:31:52] rdieter: yes, we need some volunteer to be in touch with artwork team [Út říj 14 2008] [18:32:13] jreznik: backgrounds could be included in fedora-logos as we did in the past [Út říj 14 2008] [18:32:21] The added difficulty with the KSplash theme is that there's a Fedora logo in it. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:32:30] than: yes, I think so, but now there is separate package [Út říj 14 2008] [18:32:33] We'll get lynched if we put that into something other than fedora-logos. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:33:19] Kevin_Kofler: I didn't know it... but still I don't like everything in fedora-logos [Út říj 14 2008] [18:33:22] Připojit se Matias_Arg has joined this channel (n=Administ@host106.190-31-190.telecom.net.ar). [Út říj 14 2008] [18:33:25] sounds like volunteers are sparse, I can give it shot. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:33:29] Připojit se racor has joined this channel (n=rc040203@HSI-KBW-078-043-056-093.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de). [Út říj 14 2008] [18:33:29] jreznik: Me neither. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:33:38] Odejít Matias_Arg has left this channel. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:33:49] only the items with fedora logos (and such) need or shuld be in fedora-logos [Út říj 14 2008] [18:34:12] Připojit se tibbs has joined this channel (n=tibbs@fedora/tibbs). [Út říj 14 2008] [18:34:17] Přezdívka stickster_food je nyní znám jako stickster. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:34:32] There should probably be a solar-ksplash-theme which Requires: system-logos. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:34:51] right, something like that. alrighty, we'll discuss more details after meeting? let's move on for now. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:35:07] I also explained a trick how we could ship a generic KDE or whatever logo in the KSplash theme itself and have the Fedora logo take its place automatically if fedora-logos is installed. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:35:08] rdieter: I can help you with artwork stuff, but only from artwork perspective, I'm not skill enough in packaging [Út říj 14 2008] [18:35:14] Then we could even do away with the Requires. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:35:20] jreznik: thx [Út říj 14 2008] [18:35:37] I can take care of the packaging. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:36:01] Kevin_Kofler: but still it will be better coordinate packaging with artwork team [Út říj 14 2008] [18:36:01] kushal: alternate-base-color="#666666" - that's some shade of gray, so it's no wonder you're getting something gray with that setting. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:36:12] Kevin_Kofler, http://kushaldas.in/tmp/solarmania.tar.bz2 [Út říj 14 2008] [18:36:19] Kevin_Kofler, oh , ok [Út říj 14 2008] [18:36:32] arg, stuff I added to the agenda before meeting, now the wiki seems reverted to the version before I added anthing. ?? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:37:02] Připojit se thomasj has joined this channel (n=thomasj@fedora/thomasj). [Út říj 14 2008] [18:37:05] Odejít poelcat has left this channel. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:37:09] oh, http vs https (http shows old content ??) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:37:23] http is cached. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:37:35] bleh, next topic: kde-4.2.x cvs import status, lvillani? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:37:45] There's also the 4.1.2 status. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:37:58] Should we do that first or 4.2.x first? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:38:01] Téma rdieter nastavil téma kanálu na "-- KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-14 -- kde-4.1.2 update status". [Út říj 14 2008] [18:38:07] ok, let's do 4.1.2. first. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:38:10] Kevin_Kofler, ok, making it transparent does the magic :) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:38:48] kushal: You could experiment with something almost transparent, like "66666608". [Út říj 14 2008] [18:38:49] did the kioslaves fix make the latest push? (don't think so, but thought I'd ask). [Út říj 14 2008] [18:39:37] Kevin_Kofler, why we need a alternate-base-color ? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:39:50] kushal: We don't absolutely need one. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:39:58] oh :) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:40:02] Setting it also to all transparent is OK. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:40:07] ok [Út říj 14 2008] [18:40:27] Kevin_Kofler, then check the font and label positions [Út říj 14 2008] [18:40:27] otherwise, any other 4.1.2 blockers/issues? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:40:33] rdieter: Which fix? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:41:04] rdieter: do you mean the fix that i commited today [Út říj 14 2008] [18:41:05] kioslaves not dying. than comitted a patch to kdelibs recently, irc. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:41:10] yes! [Út říj 14 2008] [18:41:39] rdieter: yes [Út říj 14 2008] [18:41:50] kdelibs-4.1.2-4 should be in the currently ongoing push already. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:42:08] I've got one more kdelibs fix in the queue [Út říj 14 2008] [18:42:18] will commit today [Út říj 14 2008] [18:42:31] As for other 4.1.2 stuff: what do we do with the autohide stuff? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:42:59] (i.e. kdebase-workspace-4.1.2-5.fc9) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:43:05] ok, I propose we let the current batch simmer until Friday(?), and if no other issues/blockers arise, push to stable [Út říj 14 2008] [18:43:34] +1 [Út říj 14 2008] [18:43:45] Kopete is crashing again for me when logging out... [Út říj 14 2008] [18:43:51] And we push the autohide stuff to testing after the other stuff went stable? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:44:00] and disable the autohide panel feature until we fix the CPU problem [Út říj 14 2008] [18:44:07] rdieter: +1 [Út říj 14 2008] [18:44:13] Kevin_Kofler: I thought autohide was included in this push? no? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:44:22] rdieter: dont think so [Út říj 14 2008] [18:44:29] It's not. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:44:52] Kevin_Kofler: ok, I like your proposal then to push that separately to testing later [Út říj 14 2008] [18:44:53] The soonest I can get it in is the next push. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:45:10] Kevin_Kofler: IMO the feature should be disable fo F9 update [Út říj 14 2008] [18:45:26] if it causes the problem [Út říj 14 2008] [18:45:31] Let's definitely not include it in the 4.1.2 push. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:45:38] We don't know how reliable it is. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:46:01] I still think we should get it out to testing once we have 4.1.2 out of the door. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:46:09] Kevin_Kofler: +1 [Út říj 14 2008] [18:46:20] And then we'll see. If it's broken, we kick it out and build 4.1.3 without it. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:46:39] Kevin_Kofler: it's fine with me [Út říj 14 2008] [18:47:02] AFAICT, the current version is working, though autohide looks ugly because I had to drop the patch which fixed that because it was eating CPU cycles like crazy. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:47:13] But that doesn't affect users not using autohide. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:47:21] (the ugly looks) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:47:26] time is short, let's move on... next topic: importing kde-4.2.x. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:47:34] Téma rdieter nastavil téma kanálu na "-- KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-14 -- importing kde-4.2.x". [Út říj 14 2008] [18:47:34] Kevin_Kofler: is it builded somewhere in Koji? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:47:36] lvillani: ? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:47:49] jreznik: Yes, kdebase-workspace-4.1.2-5.fc9. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:47:57] thx [Út říj 14 2008] [18:48:00] 4.1.69 is building fine [Út říj 14 2008] [18:48:07] except kdebindings (lot of problems) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:48:17] unexpected xD [Út říj 14 2008] [18:48:21] and kdebase 4.1.69 (dolphin fails to compile) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:48:22] But nothing is imported in CVS yet (for 4.2). [Út říj 14 2008] [18:48:25] lvillani: you were going to post what you have to fedorapeople? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:48:34] jreznik: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=65975 [Út říj 14 2008] [18:48:51] Kevin_Kofler: I prefer to get something reviewed before I import it in CVS [Út říj 14 2008] [18:49:07] lvillani: any new pkgs? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:49:07] I'm not a long-time contributor it's better that you don't trust my specfiles ;) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:49:39] rdieter: let me finish building 4.1.69 modules, after that i'll upload them on my fedorapeople account [Út říj 14 2008] [18:49:48] ok [Út říj 14 2008] [18:49:51] and the specfiles on it or github, assembla, $whatever [Út říj 14 2008] [18:50:15] at the moment [Út říj 14 2008] [18:50:36] I'm keeping kdebase 4.1.66 since it's last compilable version [Út říj 14 2008] [18:50:39] and don't worry too much about kdebindings... it almost always breaks horribly before things begin to stabilize [Út říj 14 2008] [18:50:46] 4.1.69 needs some care [Út říj 14 2008] [18:51:03] (but I think we'll need to update strigi/nepomuk snapshots) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:51:28] ick, we'll deal with that when we get to it I guess. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:51:31] What's the state of the patches? [Út říj 14 2008] [18:51:42] all patches apply without problems [Út říj 14 2008] [18:51:46] Good. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:51:49] at least, the important ones [Út říj 14 2008] [18:51:56] Not good. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:52:01] there were a couple of backported patches [Út říj 14 2008] [18:52:08] which didn't apply [Út říj 14 2008] [18:52:10] Well, OK, duh. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:52:11] (IIRC) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:52:17] Of course those aren't relevant anymore. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:52:27] anyway, I commented them in the specfile [Út říj 14 2008] [18:52:32] But all the patches which aren't upstream really need to get applied. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:52:34] instead of removing the lines [Út říj 14 2008] [18:53:04] I think that the main 'stoppers' are kdebase 4.1.69 [Út říj 14 2008] [18:53:21] and kdesdk (4.1.66 failed, too) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:54:09] Well, could you please go through the commented patches and check if they're really applied (not just "if they fail to apply, they're probably already applied" as you did for 4.1, that's a bad heuristic ;-) ). If they are, they should get removed altogether, but if they aren't, they have to be updated. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:54:20] except for these two modules 4.1.66 is almost complete [Út říj 14 2008] [18:54:26] (and I'm building 4.1.69 right now) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:54:52] kdegames is building in mock [Út říj 14 2008] [18:55:10] alrightly, last general comment/topic before time runs out: F10/rawhide testing [Út říj 14 2008] [18:55:27] Kevin_Kofler: i'll do that for sure ;-) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:55:32] (as time permits) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:56:20] School and real life are keeping me busy ;) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:57:07] rdieter: it's not easy even to boot to F10/rawhide :( [Út říj 14 2008] [18:57:16] how many here have tried F10/rawhide recently? In short, I'd like to challenge everyone to *try*. :) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:57:27] * darthmarth37|Wk raises hand [Út říj 14 2008] [18:57:30] I "upgraded" all my home computers/laptops to rawhide [Út říj 14 2008] [18:57:43] lvillani: brave soul are you. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:57:49] and well, it's running smoothly [Út říj 14 2008] [18:58:05] except some freezes on the laptop today [Út říj 14 2008] [18:58:23] some small testing (the radeon driver issues prevented me from do more). I've some issues with kmail that I have to sort out [Út říj 14 2008] [18:59:21] nod, I've had radeon issues too. nomodeset + no compositing = a stable box so far. [Út říj 14 2008] [18:59:41] on my side, it seems to work fine [Út říj 14 2008] [18:59:50] I only get frequent crashes when logging out [Út říj 14 2008] [18:59:55] In VirtualBox I have kernel panic every five minutes... with 1.6.2 even I'm not able to boot, after update to latest rawhide KDE are running now but... in qemu-kvm the same [Út říj 14 2008] [18:59:57] (mainly kopete and kontact) [Út říj 14 2008] [18:59:58] rdieter: here it is bug #464853 [Út říj 14 2008] [19:00:00] Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=464853 medium, medium, ---, airlied@redhat.com, CLOSED RAWHIDE, Right side of windows not updated [Út říj 14 2008] [19:00:18] svahl: I saw that initially too, but it's fixed now. [Út říj 14 2008] [19:00:35] yes, the fix should be in tomorrows rawhide. [Út říj 14 2008] [19:00:55] I wasn't able to test it yet (with koji package) [Út říj 14 2008] [19:01:05] really? my latest 'yum update' from yesterday or the day before seemed to have fixed it. ? [Út říj 14 2008] [19:01:18] mhh. Maybe I have to recheck [Út říj 14 2008] [19:01:20] well, I'll verify that when I get home. [Út říj 14 2008] [19:02:06] ok, time's up... KDE SIG Meeting end. [Út říj 14 2008] [19:02:08] thanks all [Út říj 14 2008] [19:02:25] Odejít lvillani has left this channel ("Konversation terminated!"). [Út říj 14 2008] [19:02:36] Přezdívka ianweller je nyní znám jako ianweller_food. [Út říj 14 2008] [19:02:40] svahl: log/summary? [Út říj 14 2008] [19:02:46] already on it [Út říj 14 2008] [19:02:59] Well, Kompare upstream (i.e. me ;-) ) asks if this is worth backporting to the Fedora packages: http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=871152 [Út říj 14 2008] [19:03:09] Téma rdieter nastavil téma kanálu na "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule". [Út říj 14 2008] [19:03:12] Can't backport to upstream 4.1.3 because there's a new string. [Út říj 14 2008] [19:03:58] Well, I guess we can discuss that on #fedora-kde. [Út říj 14 2008] [19:04:08] Kevin_Kofler: shrug, use your best judgement. either way is ok with me. [Út říj 14 2008] [19:04:21] Odejít Kevin_Kofler has left this channel ("Bye!"). *** Logfile started *** on Út lis 4 18:05:59 2008 [Út lis 4 2008] [18:05:59] Join You have joined the channel #fedora-meeting (n=jreznik@251.120.broadband9.iol.cz). [Út lis 4 2008] [18:05:59] Topic The channel topic is "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule". [Út lis 4 2008] [18:05:59] Topic The topic was set by rdieter on 4.11.2008 18:00:12. [Út lis 4 2008] [18:06:05] CTCP Received Version request from freenode-connect. [Út lis 4 2008] [18:06:40] Mode Channel modes: no messages from outside, no colors allowed [Út lis 4 2008] [18:06:40] Created This channel was created on 18.1.2007 20:10:56. [Út lis 4 2008] [18:07:57] Join JSchmitt has joined this channel (n=s4504kr@fedora/JSchmitt). [Út lis 4 2008] [18:09:58] Nick mizmo is now known as mizmo-lunch. [Út lis 4 2008] [18:10:13] Part Kevin_Kofler has left this channel ("Bye!"). [Út lis 4 2008] [18:20:52] Nick hanthana_ is now known as hanthana. [Út lis 4 2008] [18:21:33] Join Bouska has joined this channel (n=Pablo@ip-213-49-225-7.dsl.scarlet.be). [Út lis 4 2008] [18:24:30] Join smparrish_mobile has joined this channel (i=cfd35206@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d1fce76ce2e8576f). [Út lis 4 2008] [18:28:30] Join You have joined the channel #fedora-meeting (n=jreznik@251.120.broadband9.iol.cz). [Út lis 4 2008] [18:28:30] Topic The channel topic is "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule". [Út lis 4 2008] [18:28:31] Topic The topic was set by rdieter on 4.11.2008 18:00:12. *** Logfile started *** on Út lis 18 16:57:30 2008 [Út lis 18 2008] [16:57:30] Join You have joined the channel #fedora-meeting (n=jreznik@251.120.broadband9.iol.cz). [Út lis 18 2008] [16:57:30] Topic The channel topic is "Bug Triage Meeting". [Út lis 18 2008] [16:57:30] Topic The topic was set by poelcat on 18.11.2008 16:02:27. [Út lis 18 2008] [16:57:30] Mode Channel modes: no messages from outside, no colors allowed [Út lis 18 2008] [16:57:30] Created This channel was created on 18.1.2007 20:10:56. [Út lis 18 2008] [16:57:42] i think there is another meeting comeing in a sec anyway. cheers poelcat [Út lis 18 2008] [16:57:53] Join Kevin_Kofler has joined this channel (n=Kevin_Ko@chello213047068123.17.14.vie.surfer.at). [Út lis 18 2008] [16:58:52] should we go to qa? [Út lis 18 2008] [16:58:55] tk009: people should starting the next meeting here in a min so you can find me in #fedora-qa if you want any more info ad can also ask jds2001 and any others. [Út lis 18 2008] [16:59:03] snap [Út lis 18 2008] [16:59:30] =) [Út lis 18 2008] [16:59:30] Nick stickster is now known as stickster_afk. [Út lis 18 2008] [16:59:40] Part tk009 has left this channel ("Ex-Chat"). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:04:14] Nick stickster_afk is now known as stickster. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:06:37] Join CheekyBoinc has joined this channel (n=CheekyBo@fedora/CheekyBoinc). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:07:46] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-11-18 - Init". [Út lis 18 2008] [17:07:46] Join openpercept has joined this channel (n=openperc@unaffiliated/openpercept). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:07:54] Time for the KDE SIG Meeting, who's present? [Út lis 18 2008] [17:08:02] * jreznik is present [Út lis 18 2008] [17:08:04] here [Út lis 18 2008] [17:09:40] Hmmm, is that all? [Út lis 18 2008] [17:09:47] Quit lfoppiano has left this server ("Ex-Chat"). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:10:24] than mailed us he'll be missing, rdieter just said he'll be late, ltinkl is I don't know where and svahl is not here either. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:10:35] Join Zool^ has joined this channel (n=kaland@19.81-166-29.customer.lyse.net). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:11:45] Kevin_Kofler: we can start with something not too important and wait for others if they come, especially rdieter [Út lis 18 2008] [17:12:31] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-11-18 - KDM ConsoleKit patch upstream version http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=886022 - testing XDMCP". [Út lis 18 2008] [17:12:44] Well, then let's start with this one: KDM ConsoleKit patch upstream version http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=886022 - testing XDMCP [Út lis 18 2008] [17:12:59] Mostly a FYI: a variant of my ConsoleKit patch now went upstream into 4.2. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:13:08] However ossi rewrote the XDMCP part, so it could use some testing there. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:13:22] here now. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:13:31] I could do some testing with my 2 machines, I guess I'll do so, unless somebody else can test it before me. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:13:50] I can test it... maybe do some custom local builds using it. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:14:14] mid-term (before 4.2.0), we should switch to using that upstream patch for even more/better exposure. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:14:16] It's easy to make local builds of it, just replace the patch in the RPM with this one, it should apply with no offset nor fuzz to 4.1.x too. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:14:59] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-11-18 - KDE 4.2". [Út lis 18 2008] [17:15:01] Kevin_Kofler: what exactly you would like to test? [Út lis 18 2008] [17:15:50] xdmcp... these sessions should *not* get console access, right? [Út lis 18 2008] [17:15:51] Login through XDMCP should work and not crash and at least on the machine the session is actually running on (the app server / X client) ck-list-sessions should know about the session. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:16:12] Join lfoppiano has joined this channel (n=lfoppian@fedora/lfoppiano). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:16:30] And it should say is-local=false. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:16:35] okie dokie [Út lis 18 2008] [17:16:38] If it gets device access anyway, that's a ConsoleKit bug, not ours. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:17:02] OK, anything else about ConsoleKit or can we move on? [Út lis 18 2008] [17:17:32] move on [Út lis 18 2008] [17:17:35] now we can move on, I'll do some testing tomorrow [Út lis 18 2008] [17:17:46] OK, next topic: KDE 4.2 [Út lis 18 2008] [17:18:14] We still have almost none of 4.2 imported in F11/devel. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:19:31] Now that the 4.1.3 rush is complete, we should really work on it. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:19:45] That said, the next snapshot (the beta if I'm not mistaken) is about to be tagged. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:19:46] so, what's the plan here? lvillani has a local (git?) repo which needs merging, right? [Út lis 18 2008] [17:19:46] So I guess we should wait for that. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:20:04] Right, he has a git repo which needs proofreading and merging. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:20:29] Really merging, not just importing, as it may be missing some of our latest changes. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:20:30] (Though he has been working on merging them in.) [Út lis 18 2008] [17:20:37] November 25th, 2008: Release KDE 4.2 Beta 1 [Út lis 18 2008] [17:21:07] alright, anyone have time/interest to work on this in the short-term (ie, this week)? [Út lis 18 2008] [17:21:08] Join ltinkl has joined this channel (n=ltinkl@194.212.22.14). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:21:35] on second thought, maybe waiting for beta1 isn't a bad idea, for me anyway, I still need to write some docs. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:21:35] Join alexxed has joined this channel (n=alex@dyn-86.105.67.31.tm.upcnet.ro). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:21:46] Quit giallu has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:21:48] jreznik: That's the release date. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:22:00] Tagging is midnight UTC between today and tomorrow. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:22:06] Kevin_Kofler: ah, sorry November 25th, 2008: Release KDE 4.2 Beta 1 [Út lis 18 2008] [17:22:15] November 18th, 2008: Tag KDE 4.2 Beta 1 [Út lis 18 2008] [17:22:18] Tarballs will be up for packaging shortly afterwards. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:22:19] now :) [Út lis 18 2008] [17:22:32] bad content of clipboard... [Út lis 18 2008] [17:22:44] reminds me, anyone here not have kde-packager access to ktown? [Út lis 18 2008] [17:22:46] Actually it's 23:59 UTC today they said. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:22:50] rdieter: Me. :-( [Út lis 18 2008] [17:22:53] Quit CheekyBoinc has left this server ("Use Fedora Linux -> fedoraproject.org ++ www.cheekyboinc.de ++"). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:23:04] fwiw, I'm still using my kde-redhat ftpuoredhat access. jreznik, ltinkl : what about you? [Út lis 18 2008] [17:23:19] "uo" = unofficial. :) [Út lis 18 2008] [17:23:46] It's just a matter of adding a ssh key @ktown [Út lis 18 2008] [17:24:08] rdieter: I have root on ktown, np :p [Út lis 18 2008] [17:24:24] could you be more specific, I'm newbie to this topic :) [Út lis 18 2008] [17:24:26] Quit Zool^ has left this server ("Leaving"). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:24:44] heh, ltinkl is there another ftpredhat acct or anything like that for others to use? [Út lis 18 2008] [17:24:46] or I/we could continue to use ftpuoredhat for that [Út lis 18 2008] [17:24:50] Join Zool^ has joined this channel (n=kaland@19.81-166-29.customer.lyse.net). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:24:50] rdieter: not aware of any [Út lis 18 2008] [17:25:16] ok, tell ya what, anyone who wants access to ftpuoredhat@ktown.kde.org, send me a private ssh key, and I'll add it there. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:25:35] rdieter: A private one? Are you sure? [Út lis 18 2008] [17:25:35] oops, sorry, *public*. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:25:36] It should be a public one, I think. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:25:51] my brain was thinking public, fingers typed otherwise. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:25:57] OK, I'll send you my SSH pubkey. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:27:39] So, do we have any volunteer to do the 4.2 stuff? I'm really busy so I'm afraid that if I say I'll do it it'll end up delayed again. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:28:08] References for lvilanni's git repo? [Út lis 18 2008] [17:28:09] Kevin_Kofler: where do you want to import it? I might give it a try [Út lis 18 2008] [17:28:13] ltinkl: devel/ branch [Út lis 18 2008] [17:28:23] ok, I'll do it [Út lis 18 2008] [17:28:49] suh weet. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:28:58] The part you missed: [Út lis 18 2008] [17:28:58] Right, he has a git repo which needs proofreading and merging. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:28:58] Really merging, not just importing, as it may be missing some of our latest changes. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:28:58] (Though he has been working on merging them in.) [Út lis 18 2008] [17:29:00] ltinkl: I can help you, ping me tomorrow [Út lis 18 2008] [17:29:07] Let me dig up the git repo's URL again... [Út lis 18 2008] [17:29:14] jreznik: ok [Út lis 18 2008] [17:29:23] Kevin_Kofler: what does this git repo contain? [Út lis 18 2008] [17:30:06] Specfiles for 4.2. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:30:21] Some updated patches too. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:30:49] http://fedorapeople.org/gitweb?p=arbiter/public_git/rpm.git;a=tree;f=kde;h=8aef5140e53fa19026db058b6447fa0d92be0df5;hb=HEAD [Út lis 18 2008] [17:30:49] Nick stickster is now known as stickster_afk. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:30:54] hmm, who maintains this? [Út lis 18 2008] [17:30:54] lvillani a.k.a. arbiter [Út lis 18 2008] [17:30:59] and why? [Út lis 18 2008] [17:31:23] Because he wants to help? And because he wanted/needed 4.2 before we were ready to work on it. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:32:00] And be careful, don't import kdevelop, kdevplatform, kdewebdev from there: AFAIK, kdewebdev will still have no Quanta in 4.2 and the others won't release at all with 4.2 (only betas). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:32:12] Join m_stone has joined this channel (n=mstone@dhcp-47-72.media.mit.edu). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:33:28] I see the incentives but why didn't he maintain it straight in cvs/devel [Út lis 18 2008] [17:33:43] You don't have to use his specfiles as is, but please do look at them, most of the work he did is stuff we'll have to do anyway. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:33:57] Because he ended up making a royal mess out of strigi/devel and kdelibs/devel? ;-) [Út lis 18 2008] [17:33:57] ok, I'll give it a try tomorrow [Út lis 18 2008] [17:34:06] ltinkl: at the time, our devel/ branch was still tracking KDE-4.1 for F-10. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:34:14] ltinkl: rawhide wasn't branched F10? [Út lis 18 2008] [17:34:19] I see [Út lis 18 2008] [17:34:28] When he started, it wasn't. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:34:46] When he did the imports, kdelibs was early-branched, but strigi wasn't and a mess ensued. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:35:01] And for kdelibs, the specfile he imported was also missing some of our current changes. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:35:22] Nick stickster_afk is now known as stickster. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:35:22] That's why I say whoever imports things needs to check all our current changes are in. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:35:37] (Except stuff which is backported from 4.2 anyway, of course. :-) ) [Út lis 18 2008] [17:36:54] Join kital has joined this channel (n=Joerg_Si@fedora/kital). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:36:55] OK, we have a lot more stuff to discuss and not much time, so let's move on. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:37:04] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-11-18 - PolicyKit-KDE". [Út lis 18 2008] [17:37:10] Quit mbacovsk has left this server (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:37:21] Next topic: PolicyKit-KDE - see also Aaron's post at http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2008/11/24.html [Út lis 18 2008] [17:37:43] Join bpepple|lt has joined this channel (n=bpepple|@adsl-75-42-221-138.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:37:43] It is reportedly getting ready to get packaged. So what do we do? Wait and see if it ends up in upstream 4.2? Start packaging it in Rawhide now? [Út lis 18 2008] [17:40:35] Hmmm, I'll guess that means "wait and see", I'll bring it up again at a later meeting once we know more. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:40:37] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-11-18 - kio-sysinfo". [Út lis 18 2008] [17:40:48] Next topic: kio-sysinfo [Út lis 18 2008] [17:40:48] want-n-see: +1 [Út lis 18 2008] [17:40:49] wait-n-see even [Út lis 18 2008] [17:41:04] jreznik: You wanted this one on the agenda. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:41:07] Looks like it's ready from aaron's post... And he asks to package it... Wait and see... Or better try and see [Út lis 18 2008] [17:41:13] Kevin_Kofler: ok [Út lis 18 2008] [17:41:41] I have prepared package, now I have official release from ltinkl [Út lis 18 2008] [17:41:41] Quit openpercept has left this server (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:42:02] but now question is - integration with KDE, Kickoff [Út lis 18 2008] [17:42:19] cool, would be shame for us to not package/include something produced by one of our own developers. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:43:01] :) [Út lis 18 2008] [17:43:02] A toplevel menu entry named "About this computer" with OnlyShowIn=KDE; (GNOME already has its version of that)? [Út lis 18 2008] [17:43:15] Kevin_Kofler: ye, sth like that [Út lis 18 2008] [17:43:17] That would be the easiest solution for integration. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:43:31] Yes, Computer tab in Kickoff [Út lis 18 2008] [17:43:46] jreznik: put it under Kickoff->My Computer? [Út lis 18 2008] [17:43:59] But I didn't find how to do it :) suse is patching Kickoff to add it [Út lis 18 2008] [17:43:59] Well, yes, in Kickoff that's the best solution. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:44:14] Nick stickster is now known as stickster_afk. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:44:16] I'm afraid that's probably the only way. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:44:31] .desktop files will end up under Programs. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:45:04] as I know, it's only one way [Út lis 18 2008] [17:45:11] If we do the patch right, we can use the translations from the .desktop file, even if we have to patch the code to display it under Computer. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:45:43] ok, i18n from .desktop file [Út lis 18 2008] [17:45:58] now - kio-sysinfo package as dependency for patched kdebase-workspace? [Út lis 18 2008] [17:46:52] I guess so, if we hardcode it in, we'll have to require it. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:46:52] Quit JSchmitt has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:47:14] ok, thanks [Út lis 18 2008] [17:47:39] Quit fbijlsma has left this server ("Leaving"). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:47:55] Join fbijlsma has joined this channel (n=fbijlsma@217.110.39.98). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:47:55] Will we also show it as a toplevel entry in the classic menu? [Út lis 18 2008] [17:48:00] Nick stickster_afk is now known as stickster. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:48:00] Or will it be displayed in the new-style Kickoff only? [Út lis 18 2008] [17:49:16] we should show it in classic menu I think [Út lis 18 2008] [17:50:31] So will you submit it for review and do the kdebase-workspace part soon? [Út lis 18 2008] [17:51:06] KDE.org review? [Út lis 18 2008] [17:51:19] Join delero has joined this channel (n=denis@nat/sun/x-990a38e5da4bdd80). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:51:23] RPM review [Út lis 18 2008] [17:51:29] ah RPM, ok [Út lis 18 2008] [17:51:54] patch is one liner, so it shouldn't be problem [Út lis 18 2008] [17:52:42] Quit fab__ has left this server ("Leaving"). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:52:59] ltinkl should be trying to get it moved playground -> kdereview -> extragear upstream. :-) [Út lis 18 2008] [17:53:01] Join openpercept has joined this channel (n=openperc@unaffiliated/openpercept). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:53:08] Or maybe even into kdebase-workspace, but the window for 4.2 was just missed. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:53:15] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-11-18 - Cleaning up package requests https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE#Package_Requests". [Út lis 18 2008] [17:53:55] Well, we're running out of time, so here's the next topic: Cleaning up package requests https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE#Package_Requests [Út lis 18 2008] [17:53:59] I think a lot of the stuff there is outdated. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:54:16] I removed a request to package kickoff ;-) and also a gnome-sharp app somebody mistakenly added there (moved that one to the general Fedora wishlist). ;-) [Út lis 18 2008] [17:54:54] But the remaining stuff still needs checking if it's still current and if the listed maintainers are still interested. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:55:05] Quit No5251 has left this server (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:55:36] tasma looks outdated - it's kcontrol replacement, we have system settings now [Út lis 18 2008] [17:55:58] themes for 3.5.x [Út lis 18 2008] [17:56:12] Well, widget styles can still be used. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:56:45] Though you have to know the hack I added to allow using different styles in KDE 3 and 4, it's not exposed in the UI. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:56:58] It's only really documented in the qt4-theme-quarticurve readme. ;-) [Út lis 18 2008] [17:56:58] Join inode0 has joined this channel (n=inode0@fedora/inode0). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:58:55] Quit nphilipp has left this server ("Leaving"). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:58:55] Join racor has joined this channel (n=rc040203@HSI-KBW-078-043-127-065.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de). [Út lis 18 2008] [17:59:01] ok, yum install qt4-theme-quarticurve :) [Út lis 18 2008] [17:59:08] tasma is still KDE 3 only, I'll rm it. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:59:27] It needs a KDE 4 port to be useful in F9+. [Út lis 18 2008] [17:59:36] Join JSchmitt has joined this channel (n=s4504kr@fedora/JSchmitt). [Út lis 18 2008] [18:00:11] Kevin_Kofler: it's work for Pardus guys [Út lis 18 2008] [18:00:23] Quit che has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [Út lis 18 2008] [18:00:49] They still ship KDE 3. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:01:35] I don't know what they're doing for the next release (which will be KDE 4 based), but tasma trunk surely isn't it. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:01:36] Maybe they just use systemsettings. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:02:12] I also see php-qt in the wishlist which is now part of kdebindings. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:02:26] That one should probably be built as part of kdebindings, but put in a separate package. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:02:33] (subpackage) [Út lis 18 2008] [18:03:02] time is over for this meeting :( [Út lis 18 2008] [18:03:30] Indeed... [Út lis 18 2008] [18:03:57] There's one topic still on the agenda. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:03:57] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-11-18 - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461926". [Út lis 18 2008] [18:03:57] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461926 [Út lis 18 2008] [18:03:58] Bug 461926: high, urgent, ---, than@redhat.com, CLOSED RAWHIDE, webcollage screen saver displaying pornography [Út lis 18 2008] [18:04:02] We have mostly discussed this in #fedora-kde already. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:04:02] Than disabled webcollage for now. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:04:14] We're looking for a better solution, see also: [Út lis 18 2008] [18:04:15] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=472061 [Út lis 18 2008] [18:04:15] Bug 472061: high, medium, ---, mtasaka@ioa.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp, ASSIGNED, webcollage screen saver displaying pornography [Út lis 18 2008] [18:04:28] (cloned bug filed against xscreensaver, asking for better defaults there). [Út lis 18 2008] [18:04:29] I so love webcollage. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:04:57] I think disabling it is the wrong solution. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:05:10] Part delero has left this channel. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:05:43] but displaying porn, I'm single, not a problem for me, but for married geeks :) [Út lis 18 2008] [18:05:45] the best/right solution is for webcollage to behave by default, but it appears that the xscreensaver maintainer is resistant to that. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:06:11] Some workplaces also frown on pr0n. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:06:30] In some countries (like the US), most of them. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:06:31] so does the US govt -( [Út lis 18 2008] [18:07:02] it's clearly not an acceptable default, so it's not a question of whether it needs fixing or not. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:07:02] Yes, the police came to talk to me about it. So, uh, any solution that fixes it is nice. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:07:16] heh [Út lis 18 2008] [18:07:16] Part openpercept has left this channel. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:07:26] * dgilmore walked in at an old job and the webcollage screensaver was full of porn. thankfully noone saw it [Út lis 18 2008] [18:07:31] after that i disabled random screensaver [Út lis 18 2008] [18:08:06] Hehe [Út lis 18 2008] [18:08:20] * spot looks around [Út lis 18 2008] [18:08:59] OK, our time is up, we'll leave the room. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:09:03] don't make me use the hose. ;) [Út lis 18 2008] [18:09:04] webcollage needs to not actively show porn. i never looked at the code to work out if it purposly searched porn. or if it was a fluke [Út lis 18 2008] [18:09:19] how about.. don't use webcollage [Út lis 18 2008] [18:09:24] how are you supposed to *detect* porn [Út lis 18 2008] [18:09:42] unless you restrict the screensaver to a subset of known safe sites [Út lis 18 2008] [18:09:42] Random screensaver will want to use it. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:09:43] which completely defeats the entire design of webcollage [Út lis 18 2008] [18:09:49] So "don't use it" means delete it entirely. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:09:55] you want something that just shows the flickr most interesting pictures? sure, do that [Út lis 18 2008] [18:10:08] Which is what than did in the latest kdebase-workspace build. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:10:17] I thought random already disabled webcollage [Út lis 18 2008] [18:10:29] * spot gets the hose out [Út lis 18 2008] [18:10:30] Nick stickster is now known as stickster_food. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:10:30] that's happened a couple of times with RHEL [Út lis 18 2008] [18:10:30] Quit lfoppiano has left this server ("Ex-Chat"). [Út lis 18 2008] [18:10:58] Well, I'm outta here before spot soaks me. ;-) [Út lis 18 2008] [18:10:58] I could *swear* we already had a patch to disable webcollage or remove it from the random list [Út lis 18 2008] [18:10:59] Part Kevin_Kofler has left this channel ("Bye!"). [Út lis 18 2008] [18:11:03] and it just needs to be found [Út lis 18 2008] [18:11:15] Topic spot sets the channel topic to "Fedora Packaging Meeting - Our screensaver is porn-free!". [Út lis 18 2008] [18:11:36] Part ltinkl has left this channel ("Konversation terminated!"). [Út lis 18 2008] [18:11:41] Join ltinkl has joined this channel (n=ltinkl@194.212.22.14). [Út lis 18 2008] [18:12:09] abadger1999, ubertibbs, racor, rdieter, i see... [Út lis 18 2008] [18:12:12] Yep. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:12:21] pong [Út lis 18 2008] [18:13:00] Join delero has joined this channel (n=denis@nat/sun/x-990a38e5da4bdd80). [Út lis 18 2008] [18:13:31] Part ltinkl has left this channel ("Konversation terminated!"). [Út lis 18 2008] [18:13:48] * spot pings Rathann|work [Út lis 18 2008] [18:13:52] i dont see hans or SmootherFrogz anywhere [Út lis 18 2008] [18:14:34] yo [Út lis 18 2008] [18:14:38] racor, are you still here? [Út lis 18 2008] [18:14:43] * delero is here [Út lis 18 2008] [18:15:03] 5 [Út lis 18 2008] [18:15:08] well, we have quorum, so lets look at the one item on the agenda [Út lis 18 2008] [18:15:11] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingDrafts/RubyGem_with_C_code [Út lis 18 2008] [18:16:13] I have to admit that the issue is a bit bizarre. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:16:13] this got a fair amount of discussion on the mailing list [Út lis 18 2008] [18:17:07] given my limited knowledge of ruby, it looks pretty sensible. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:17:22] enforcing optflags is a good thing, and having the gem in buildroot at the end of prep is helpful for review [Út lis 18 2008] [18:17:26] sorry, yes, got distracted ;) [Út lis 18 2008] [18:18:03] I agree. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:18:30] Basically, following our existing guidelines leads to those two issues; I've run into them in package reviews but did not understand how to solve them. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:18:41] i also trust David Lutterkort's judgement here, as he does know ruby [Út lis 18 2008] [18:18:59] so, +1 from me [Út lis 18 2008] [18:19:12] Quit JSchmitt has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Út lis 18 2008] [18:19:13] Yep. It seems good to me too. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:19:14] +1 [Út lis 18 2008] [18:19:32] However, I'm afraid I don't understand the use of %buildsubdir. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:20:01] +1 [Út lis 18 2008] [18:20:13] I don't understand this issue, so 0 from me [Út lis 18 2008] [18:20:19] ubertibbs: in the example, he uses "%{gemdir}" [Út lis 18 2008] [18:20:30] i think he means to say "%buildsubdir" instead [Út lis 18 2008] [18:20:53] (or rather, vice versa, gemdir seems to make more sense here) [Út lis 18 2008] [18:20:54] what about the "alternative proposal" at the bottom ? [Út lis 18 2008] [18:21:06] well, wait [Út lis 18 2008] [18:21:15] okay, so i'm not sure the example matches the draft [Út lis 18 2008] [18:21:26] But what is %buildsubdir supposed to be? I know its some defined macro from the beginning of RPM-time, but what relevance and use does it have here? [Út lis 18 2008] [18:21:46] Join spoleeba has joined this channel (n=one@fedora/Jef). [Út lis 18 2008] [18:22:17] i dont know, iirc, it has something to do with the debuginfo voodoo [Út lis 18 2008] [18:22:50] delero: i think that is the same thing as in the draft [Út lis 18 2008] [18:24:39] i'd like to see mamoru update the example to match the draft [Út lis 18 2008] [18:25:19] +1 from me [Út lis 18 2008] [18:26:00] I'm afraid that the draft may rely on some bizarre behavior of %buildsubdir that is not guaranteed to persist. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:28:32] The whole thing seems to depend on it being defined and non-null at one point in the build process but be undefined when debuginfo is generated. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:29:04] Is that at least documented somewhere? [Út lis 18 2008] [18:29:04] so, i think that rpm tries to enter %{buildsubdir} if it is defined [Út lis 18 2008] [18:29:13] Join JSchmitt has joined this channel (n=s4504kr@fedora/JSchmitt). [Út lis 18 2008] [18:29:13] * spot doesn't understand it either [Út lis 18 2008] [18:29:38] But it's not explicitly defined anywhere in this draft, so there's some external behavior involved. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:29:40] * spot backs out of his vote [Út lis 18 2008] [18:29:58] we need more explanation about the buildsubdir [Út lis 18 2008] [18:30:16] Remember that it showed up in the haskell draft and we asked them to remove it because it was pointless. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:30:53] I don't really doubt that the stuff in this draft works, at least currently. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:31:14] i emailed mamoru asking for an example, which may make it clear, but if not, i'll ask for clarifying details and we can revisit this [Út lis 18 2008] [18:31:14] But it would be good to actually understand the stuff we put into the guidelines. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:31:36] Quit fbijlsma has left this server ("Leaving"). [Út lis 18 2008] [18:32:32] Isn't %buildsubdir just where the tarball installs in %setup ? [Út lis 18 2008] [18:33:34] the current Ruby Guidelines for gems says that %prep and %build should be empty which I think is what mamoru is saying triggers this problem. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:34:47] So talking about buildsubdir is confusing... but essentially, the problem is solved by: [Út lis 18 2008] [18:35:00] %setup -q -T -c [Út lis 18 2008] [18:36:13] by creating the topdir? [Út lis 18 2008] [18:36:23] %{name}-%{version} [Út lis 18 2008] [18:37:27] Yep. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:37:43] okay, so for sanity, we could take out %{buildsubdir} from the draft entirely [Út lis 18 2008] [18:37:45] abadger1999: "%prep and %build should be empty"?? I thought, w/ current rpm %build and %prep must _never_ be empty? [Út lis 18 2008] [18:37:45] whenever he says "%{_builddir}/%{buildsubdir}", he means "%{_builddir}/%{?buildsubdir}" [Út lis 18 2008] [18:37:53] is this the actual problem this proposal is trying to work around? [Út lis 18 2008] [18:38:57] racor: I thought with current rpm they must always exist (but may be empty) [Út lis 18 2008] [18:39:18] abadger1999: OK, you're right. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:39:20] Join sonar_logger2 has joined this channel (n=Who@unaffiliated/sonarlogger1/x-872231). [Út lis 18 2008] [18:39:24] Join Evil_Sonar_Chick has joined this channel (n=Andrea@fedora/SonarGal). [Út lis 18 2008] [18:39:47] Nick stickster_food is now known as stickster. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:40:09] Quit sonar_logger3 has left this server (Nick collision from services.). [Út lis 18 2008] [18:41:06] Maybe we should ask mamoru to rewrite the proposed additions to not mention %{buildsubdir}. the rationale makes sense to reference it but the guidelines don't. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:41:43] "First %{_builddir}/%{buildsubdir} must be created at %prep stage, by calling '%setup -q -T -c' " [Út lis 18 2008] [18:41:59] i think he's on the right track, it just isn't clear. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:42:18] Part poelcat has left this channel. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:43:00] abadger1999: i'll email him and ask him if he can simplify and clarify the draft [Út lis 18 2008] [18:43:04] yeah. Technical solution +1, wording needs clarifying. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:43:29] Quit Sonar_Gal has left this server (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). [Út lis 18 2008] [18:43:32] Join sdziallas_ has joined this channel (n=sebastia@p57A2BE22.dip.t-dialin.net). [Út lis 18 2008] [18:44:39] okay, open agenda, any other items for discussion this week? [Út lis 18 2008] [18:45:02] I have something I want to bounce off people. I've been developing an app that uses JavaScript and finding that the JavaScript draft I wrote is very onerous. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:45:33] what do people think of modeling JavaScript libraries after static libraries? [Út lis 18 2008] [18:46:00] Just copy the javascript you need into your package and make that copying explicit? [Út lis 18 2008] [18:46:26] ie: libraries must be packaged separately. At build time, the library is copied/compressed/combined into the application package. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:46:26] yeah. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:46:32] And app packagers have to join the CC list for the javascript library, etc. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:46:32] with a versioned requires? [Út lis 18 2008] [18:47:03] * spot wants to avoid javascript library proliferation [Út lis 18 2008] [18:47:25] It would be a BuildRequires: [Út lis 18 2008] [18:47:29] Quit sdziallas_ has left this server (Client Quit). [Út lis 18 2008] [18:47:29] where version A is in app foo, version B is in app bar, and version C is in app baz [Út lis 18 2008] [18:47:34] we have a security fix for the javascript library, how do we know which ones need it? [Út lis 18 2008] [18:47:47] The same way we know when the same thing happens for a static-only library. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:48:02] We troll through the BuildRequires: of all packages to see which ones suck it in. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:48:08] Hasn't happened yet, but with JS it is bound to. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:48:08] :/ [Út lis 18 2008] [18:49:00] spot: we don't limit that yet for C static libraries explicitly. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:49:00] well, i don't like it, but i can't think of a better way. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:49:04] But I share your concern. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:49:13] abadger1999: yes, but we strongly discourage static libs [Út lis 18 2008] [18:49:39] True. What does OCaml do? [Út lis 18 2008] [18:49:39] in this case, we'd be recommending the behavior for javascript [Út lis 18 2008] [18:50:05] Ocaml has no choice. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:50:49] We do have a choice with javascript, but the alternatives aren't really more pleasant. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:51:22] hmm... So javascript has a choice but it is very slow. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:51:27] How is it slow? [Út lis 18 2008] [18:51:32] i've been working with dojo... It organizes its sources in many files. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:51:33] Oh, right, the "compilation" thing. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:51:51] Unfortunately if we don't pretend they're static linking we get master packages that are specifically compiled for every other package that consumes them. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:51:52] But when loading that from a web site, you have to make a request for every one of them that you use (directly or indirectly). That is crazy slow. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:51:53] Yep. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:52:53] Compilation allows the app to create one javascript file so only one request is made. But then you've essentially statically linked together this javascript module for your app. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:53:06] Honestly I'm wondering if its worth all the effort. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:53:33] The situation now is that apps suck in the upstream sources, customize and bundle with their app. That's the intended usage model of these things. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:54:12] We're trying to work against that, and for good reason, but it will always be painful. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:55:34] [Út lis 18 2008] [18:56:09] Is it possible to write down an overview of how packaging would be like with both proposals so that people could make a more informed decision? [Út lis 18 2008] [18:56:28] And we still have unresolved legal issues surrounding javascript, don't we? [Út lis 18 2008] [18:56:29] do we? [Út lis 18 2008] [18:56:45] Distribution of uncompressed source, for one. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:56:59] Join che has joined this channel (n=rkastl@redhat/che). [Út lis 18 2008] [18:57:07] How licensing transfers across "bundling" of javascript with other apps. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:57:07] ubertibbs: can you document any such issues and send them to me so i can get them in front of RH Legal? [Út lis 18 2008] [18:57:18] Quit fab has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Út lis 18 2008] [18:57:20] as is, it was not on my radar [Út lis 18 2008] [18:57:48] I'm afraid I don't even know them all, but I can think about it for a bit and send you a message. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:57:57] I thought spot reported that downloading of javascript in a tag counted as distribution. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:58:06] so GPL compliance would figure in. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:58:09] ubertibbs: Okay, I'll try to write a comparison. [Út lis 18 2008] [18:58:58] Quit sdziallas has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [Út lis 18 2008] [18:59:47] if there is nothing else, i will end the meeting here [Út lis 18 2008] [18:59:57] i have to run to the Fedora Board meeting now anyways [Út lis 18 2008] [19:01:24] err, well, maybe that is at 1900, i can't keep up. :) [Út lis 18 2008] [19:01:24] Nothing here. [Út lis 18 2008] [19:01:44] * spot will sneak out and eat lunch then [Út lis 18 2008] [19:01:44] thanks all [Út lis 18 2008] [19:02:06] Join jmtaylor has joined this channel (n=jason@c-76-112-119-170.hsd1.mi.comcast.net). [Út lis 18 2008] [19:02:18] Part delero has left this channel. [Út lis 18 2008] [19:04:11] Quit racor has left this server ("Leaving"). [Út lis 18 2008] [19:05:34] Join Rathann|lappy has joined this channel (n=rathann@fedora/rathann). [Út lis 18 2008] [19:05:46] present [Út lis 18 2008] [19:06:30] Rathann|lappy: heh. meeting just ended. [Út lis 18 2008] [19:06:59] * abadger1999 wonders if daylight savings got the better of us again. [Út lis 18 2008] [19:07:38] what? [Út lis 18 2008] [19:07:51] huh [Út lis 18 2008] [19:08:01] Quit jmtaylor has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Út lis 18 2008] [19:08:07] I was convinced my TZ was UTC+2 [Út lis 18 2008] [19:10:21] Hmm... it's 18:00UTC now. [Út lis 18 2008] [19:10:25] apparently [Út lis 18 2008] [19:10:30] darn [Út lis 18 2008] [19:10:34] sorry folks [Út lis 18 2008] [19:11:30] oh well, I'll know better next time [Út lis 18 2008] [19:11:40] Join sdziallas has joined this channel (n=sebastia@p57A2C804.dip.t-dialin.net). [Út lis 18 2008] [19:11:41] Part Rathann|lappy has left this channel ("Leaving."). [Út lis 18 2008] [19:14:04] Topic ubertibbs sets the channel topic to "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule". 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[Út led 20 2009] [16:54:52] Topic The channel topic is "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule". [Út led 20 2009] [16:54:52] Topic The topic was set by poelcat on 20.1.2009 16:15:40. [Út led 20 2009] [16:54:52] Mode Channel modes: no messages from outside, no colors allowed [Út led 20 2009] [16:54:52] Created This channel was created on 18.1.2007 20:10:56. [Út led 20 2009] [16:54:54] Join petreu has joined this channel (n=peter@fedora/petreu). [Út led 20 2009] [16:55:37] Join gregdek has joined this channel (n=gdk@cpe-024-088-244-139.nc.res.rr.com). [Út led 20 2009] [16:55:43] Join Stalwart has joined this channel (n=stalwart@ip-10.154.Home-Lan.fastnet.lv). [Út led 20 2009] [16:58:54] Quit alexxed has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Út led 20 2009] [16:58:55] Join lvillani has joined this channel (n=lvillani@kde/developer/lvillani). [Út led 20 2009] [16:59:00] Join Kevin_Kofler has joined this channel (n=Kevin_Ko@chello213047068123.17.14.vie.surfer.at). [Út led 20 2009] [17:03:47] Join abadger1999 has joined this channel (n=abadger1@65.78.187.8). [Út led 20 2009] [17:03:57] Join ltinkl has joined this channel (n=ltinkl@194.212.22.14). [Út led 20 2009] [17:04:55] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-01-20 - Init". [Út led 20 2009] [17:05:01] So let's start. Who's present? [Út led 20 2009] [17:05:07] * jreznik is present [Út led 20 2009] [17:05:11] * ltinkl present [Út led 20 2009] [17:05:22] * rdieter mostly here [Út led 20 2009] [17:05:48] * SMParrish here [Út led 20 2009] [17:06:21] than? [Út led 20 2009] [17:06:40] present [Út led 20 2009] [17:06:57] Great, so I think we can start. [Út led 20 2009] [17:07:01] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-01-20 - desktop effects defaults in 4.2 (ltinkl asked seli)". [Út led 20 2009] [17:07:07] First topic: desktop effects defaults in 4.2 (ltinkl asked seli). [Út led 20 2009] [17:07:16] Quit chacha_chaudhry has left this server ("Ex-Chat"). [Út led 20 2009] [17:07:18] Join gja has joined this channel (n=gja@fedora/tejas). [Út led 20 2009] [17:07:31] ltinkl: So what's up? [Út led 20 2009] [17:07:32] Join JSchmitt has joined this channel (n=s4504kr@p4FDD1B11.dip0.t-ipconnect.de). [Út led 20 2009] [17:07:35] I asked Seli about the default state of desktop effects under KDE 4.2 [Út led 20 2009] [17:08:00] ltinkl: is it not disable by default? [Út led 20 2009] [17:08:08] he stated that enabling them by default is safe [Út led 20 2009] [17:08:08] Join rishi has joined this channel (n=debarshi@gnu-india/supporter/debarshi). [Út led 20 2009] [17:08:25] than: Not in (upstream) 4.2, no. [Út led 20 2009] [17:08:32] Join rahulb has joined this channel (n=rbhalera@123.236.183.101). [Út led 20 2009] [17:08:37] http://www.kdedevelopers.org/blog/280 [Út led 20 2009] [17:08:43] It's now enabled by default, they do a self test to detect misrendering. [Út led 20 2009] [17:08:59] It can't detect crashes though, can it? [Út led 20 2009] [17:09:02] according to him, they've had them on in SUSE 11.1 without any major problems (read bugreports) [Út led 20 2009] [17:09:31] ltinkl: hm the auto detech misrendering doesn't work well for some graphic cards [Út led 20 2009] [17:09:31] OpenSUSE indeed enabled them by default (with that self-test backported) in their 4.1 packages already. [Út led 20 2009] [17:09:48] well it can't detect crashes but there is little to do there, if the driver/x.org is crashing, then it would probably do so even without the effects turned on [Út led 20 2009] [17:09:55] i think it's safe to disable it by default [Út led 20 2009] [17:10:04] ltinkl: I don't think so. [Út led 20 2009] [17:10:07] I'd like to have it on by default otoh :) [Út led 20 2009] [17:10:15] There are quite some reports of crashes triggered by compositing. [Út led 20 2009] [17:10:44] maybe a compromise? F11+ enabled by default per upstreem, previous releases not (if for nothing else, but to avoid surprises and regressions)? [Út led 20 2009] [17:10:44] Kevin_Kofler: urls? [Út led 20 2009] [17:11:10] Search the ML archives. [Út led 20 2009] [17:11:12] rdieter: yeah I thought about this, in the spirit of enabling new stuff only for new distros [Út led 20 2009] [17:11:36] Part mcepl has left this channel. [Út led 20 2009] [17:11:47] We have to push out a kde-settings update for F9 and F10 anyway because of the wallpaper stuff. [Út led 20 2009] [17:12:03] So we could disable compositing by default in that kde-settings update. [Út led 20 2009] [17:12:11] I'm ok with enabled by default everywhere too... regardless, documenting it clearly/loudly... wiki, release notes, etc... is essential. [Út led 20 2009] [17:12:27] maybe even wait for KDE 4.2.1 for older distros (F9/F10), and enable by default for F11 (beta testing) [Út led 20 2009] [17:12:30] Update details too. [Út led 20 2009] [17:12:57] ltinkl: I think I like that, +1, it's safer anyway. [Út led 20 2009] [17:12:58] F11 has had it on by default for a while now. [Út led 20 2009] [17:13:10] )since it has 4.2 prereleases) [Út led 20 2009] [17:13:14] Join rwmjones_ has joined this channel (n=rwmjones@87.127.66.208). [Út led 20 2009] [17:13:40] anybody else's opinion? than, jreznik [Út led 20 2009] [17:14:07] * than is not happy to have desktop effect by default [Út led 20 2009] [17:14:17] it's ok for me [Út led 20 2009] [17:14:21] I don't see the usefulness of most of those effects. [Út led 20 2009] [17:14:26] gahh. calander requests are crashing kmail again [Út led 20 2009] [17:14:28] Animations slowing you down everywhere. :-( [Út led 20 2009] [17:14:43] that is ok Kevin, you are not an "average" user :p [Út led 20 2009] [17:14:56] And some can't even be disabled, for example the panel autohide animation is hardcoded, enable panel autohide and desktop effects and you get the animation forced on you. [Út led 20 2009] [17:14:57] I would prefer them to be off by default. Its just eye candy that consumes resources [Út led 20 2009] [17:14:59] we really have to keep this in mind [Út led 20 2009] [17:14:59] desktop effects dont work right on any of my machines [Út led 20 2009] [17:15:00] actually I like desktop effects [Út led 20 2009] [17:15:08] some are really usefull [Út led 20 2009] [17:15:15] I like especially cover switch [Út led 20 2009] [17:15:17] Quit JSchmitt has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Út led 20 2009] [17:15:28] * rdieter likes the new effects "animiation speed" option in systemsettings [Út led 20 2009] [17:15:35] it's not like our needs matter, think more in context of the users, we are not regular users [Út led 20 2009] [17:15:37] so I'm for default on for F11+, F9&F10 off [Út led 20 2009] [17:16:16] jreznik: i honestly dont think they are stable enough to be on by default [Út led 20 2009] [17:17:37] dgilmore: it looks stable for me and really it's much more better and stable than first releases of compiz [Út led 20 2009] [17:18:08] Quit che_ has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Út led 20 2009] [17:18:37] runs stable and smoothly here as well [Út led 20 2009] [17:18:50] it doesn't me it will work for all users with different hardware [Út led 20 2009] [17:18:59] Join fab has joined this channel (n=bellet@bellet.info). [Út led 20 2009] [17:18:59] s/me/nean [Út led 20 2009] [17:19:09] it may be stable but it should be optional for the user to enable based on their own circumstances/hardware [Út led 20 2009] [17:19:16] than: that's what the selftests in kwin are for [Út led 20 2009] [17:19:19] jreznik: every time i try it here i have to disable it because it messes up my system. [Út led 20 2009] [17:19:56] if the system underperforms or is not capable of those effects, they get disabled [Út led 20 2009] [17:20:31] i start getting crashes. and lockups [Út led 20 2009] [17:20:33] I'd say keep the stuff off by default in F9 and F10 for good. Try it in Rawhide and we'll see how it goes, we can disable it for F11 final if it's broken. [Út led 20 2009] [17:20:51] ltinkl: it's not only the systems underperforms [Út led 20 2009] [17:20:58] then i have the ati radeon 3550 that works with radeonhd but has zero 3d support [Út led 20 2009] [17:21:17] mplayer doesn't play videos correct [Út led 20 2009] [17:21:18] dgilmore: you don't necessarily need 3D support [Út led 20 2009] [17:21:27] with desktop effect enable [Út led 20 2009] [17:21:35] There's XRender indeed, but is this used by default? [Út led 20 2009] [17:21:36] ltinkl: i dont have accelerated 2d support either [Út led 20 2009] [17:21:42] Kevin_Kofler: no [Út led 20 2009] [17:21:57] dgilmore: XRender mode is supposed to work even with software XRender. [Út led 20 2009] [17:21:59] Kevin_Kofler: it's used as a fallback if there's not 3D support [Út led 20 2009] [17:22:02] Slow, but it should work. [Út led 20 2009] [17:22:12] dgilmore: you're in a bad driver situation where the driver claims to support stuff, but it doesn't actually work. :( [Út led 20 2009] [17:22:13] yup, it's a bit sloweer [Út led 20 2009] [17:22:19] slower * [Út led 20 2009] [17:22:32] rdieter: it does for lots of hardware. but mine is still too new [Út led 20 2009] [17:22:51] rdieter: but i have to use radeonhd to get working X [Út led 20 2009] [17:23:39] Quit dash123 has left this server ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"). [Út led 20 2009] [17:24:20] Well, time's passing quickly, so I think we should vote: who's for disabling desktop effects by default in F9 and F10? [Út led 20 2009] [17:24:29] +1 (i.e. disable by default) from me [Út led 20 2009] [17:25:15] +1 (on by default for F11) [Út led 20 2009] [17:25:26] disable by default +1 from me too [Út led 20 2009] [17:25:52] desktop effects causes problems on machines for me [Út led 20 2009] [17:26:01] This is for F9 and F10, we can have another vote for F11 next. :-) [Út led 20 2009] [17:26:09] +1 for disable by default [Út led 20 2009] [17:26:23] Join tibbs has joined this channel (n=tibbs@fedora/tibbs). [Út led 20 2009] [17:26:24] So I think the consensus is to off by default for F9 and F10, rdieter, jreznik, any objections? [Út led 20 2009] [17:27:01] Kevin_Kofler: +1 [Út led 20 2009] [17:27:14] +1 to plan [Út led 20 2009] [17:27:16] OK. And what should we do for F11? [Út led 20 2009] [17:27:25] Join tk009 has joined this channel (n=tk009@adsl-074-166-251-205.sip.bct.bellsouth.net). [Út led 20 2009] [17:27:53] Kevin_Kofler: we have time for this decision imo [Út led 20 2009] [17:27:54] Kevin_Kofler: on during devel, then based on bug reports/feedback, possibly disable if needed? [Út led 20 2009] [17:28:05] mharris: That's what I suggested too. [Út led 20 2009] [17:28:07] would help to get bugs worked out IMHO [Út led 20 2009] [17:28:12] I think it makes sense. [Út led 20 2009] [17:28:14] Kevin_Kofler: if seli and upstream says try it, let's give it a shot for alpha/betas/rc's and see how things go, and re-evaluate if necessary [Út led 20 2009] [17:28:23] And it's also upstream's default. [Út led 20 2009] [17:28:23] exactly [Út led 20 2009] [17:28:37] +1 [Út led 20 2009] [17:28:49] OK, so that's the plan: F9 and F10 => off by default, Rawhide on, decide for F11 final based on feedback from Rawhide. [Út led 20 2009] [17:28:58] And loudly complain to upstream if the feedback is bad. ;-) [Út led 20 2009] [17:29:05] maybe prepare live cd with proprietary drivers, so more people can test it... rdieter? [Út led 20 2009] [17:29:35] Proprietary drivers are probably going to crash the heck out of it... [Út led 20 2009] [17:30:35] Quit itamarjp has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Út led 20 2009] [17:30:39] jreznik: I'm ok with trying, but I've asked for help to drive that on fedora-kde list. I feel it probably requires someone with said hardware to properly test [Út led 20 2009] [17:30:49] um [Út led 20 2009] [17:30:58] Join J5 has joined this channel (n=quintice@66.187.234.199). [Út led 20 2009] [17:31:06] not to be all "wtf are you doing", but what exactly are you talking about here? [Út led 20 2009] [17:31:08] I'd be uncomforatable throuwing something together without knowing if it even works or not [Út led 20 2009] [17:31:17] Join itamarjp has joined this channel (n=itamar@189-015-208-231.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br). [Út led 20 2009] [17:31:17] rdieter: I can test with Nvidia and ATI [Út led 20 2009] [17:31:35] jwb: see topic [Út led 20 2009] [17:31:38] jwb: considering an omega-like kde live spin, which includes (at least) nvidia blobs [Út led 20 2009] [17:31:56] I don't see why we should care about proprietary drivers at all. [Út led 20 2009] [17:32:00] They're not supported. [Út led 20 2009] [17:32:10] * jwb reminds the group to abide by the trademark rules if you want to do this thing made of fail [Út led 20 2009] [17:32:13] If it crashes hard, too bad for them, not our fault. [Út led 20 2009] [17:32:21] Kevin_Kofler: nod, I'd rather those folks who want this, be the ones that put in time/effort to make it happen. :) [Út led 20 2009] [17:32:35] jwb: nod, of course [Út led 20 2009] [17:32:44] jwb: what trademark rules? [Út led 20 2009] [17:32:46] rdieter: I'd rather we just ignore their bug reports. [Út led 20 2009] [17:32:50] We can't fix them anyway. [Út led 20 2009] [17:32:57] Kevin_Kofler: that too, don't we already? :) [Út led 20 2009] [17:33:01] ltinkl, the ones that say you can't include things from outside of Fedora and still call it Fedora [Út led 20 2009] [17:33:03] (because they're bugs in the driver blob which we don't have access to) [Út led 20 2009] [17:33:24] Kevin_Kofler: +1 [Út led 20 2009] [17:33:25] ltinkl: our testing live images now are already unbranded and unofficial. [Út led 20 2009] [17:33:46] jwb: so including KDE and calling it Fedora is ok? :) [Út led 20 2009] [17:34:01] KDE is in Fedora... [Út led 20 2009] [17:34:07] not really sure what you're getting at [Út led 20 2009] [17:34:16] But not the 4.2 prereleases rebuilt for F10. :-) [Út led 20 2009] [17:34:20] Which is what the live CDs are of. [Út led 20 2009] [17:34:26] And they're unbranded. [Út led 20 2009] [17:34:31] np, I just wasn't aware of which trademark you were talking about [Út led 20 2009] [17:34:38] context: http://rdieter.livejournal.com/11843.html [Út led 20 2009] [17:34:49] But can we please move on, we already spent half an hour on this one topic! [Út led 20 2009] [17:34:54] yes [Út led 20 2009] [17:34:55] yeah, sorry [Út led 20 2009] [17:35:09] move_on++ [Út led 20 2009] [17:35:11] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-01-20 - split akonadi in kdebase-workspace in subpackage". [Út led 20 2009] [17:35:15] Next topic: split akonadi in kdebase-workspace in subpackage [Út led 20 2009] [17:35:30] Basically, there's Akonadi stuff in kdelibs, kdepimlibs and kdebase-workspace. [Út led 20 2009] [17:35:52] than would like this split out so users who don't use kdepim don't get akonadi (and mysql-server with it) forced on them. [Út led 20 2009] [17:36:43] Actually, not sure about kdelibs, probably not. [Út led 20 2009] [17:36:52] But kdepimlibs and kdebase-workspace do have Akonadi stuff. [Út led 20 2009] [17:36:52] I don't see any kdebase-workspace akonadi deps? only in kdepimlibs and kdepim. ?? [Út led 20 2009] [17:37:14] Well, then maybe than was wrong about kdebase-workspace? [Út led 20 2009] [17:37:34] those are the only complaints I get, if I try: rpm -e akonadi :) [Út led 20 2009] [17:37:41] What's sure is that kdebase and a few other kde* components drag in kdepimlibs which drags in Akonadi. [Út led 20 2009] [17:37:46] does kdebase-workspacee require mysql.server? [Út led 20 2009] [17:37:51] than: no [Út led 20 2009] [17:38:08] * than is checking [Út led 20 2009] [17:38:09] only akonadi Requires mysql-server [Út led 20 2009] [17:38:30] But akonadi is required by kdepimlibs which is required by several KDE modules. [Út led 20 2009] [17:38:33] So that's the dep chain. [Út led 20 2009] [17:38:34] so... I'm ok with looking to splitting akonadi-related deps from kdepimlibs to achieve the same goal [Út led 20 2009] [17:38:44] if that's possible [Út led 20 2009] [17:38:47] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-01-20 - split akonadi in kdepimlibs in subpackage". [Út led 20 2009] [17:38:54] (I fixed the topic. :-) ) [Út led 20 2009] [17:39:41] probably the libakonadi-*.so shlibs in kdepimlibs (and maybe more). [Út led 20 2009] [17:39:55] We should figure out what part of kdepimlibs are used outside of kdepim and why. [Út led 20 2009] [17:40:19] Join CheekyBoinc has joined this channel (n=CheekyBo@fedora/CheekyBoinc). [Út led 20 2009] [17:40:26] I'm afraid that those libs may well require Akonadi now. [Út led 20 2009] [17:40:33] All the PIM stuff is getting migrated to it. [Út led 20 2009] [17:40:46] proposal: let than continue investigating what needs splitting, and re-evaluate when we have all the facts [Út led 20 2009] [17:40:56] +1 [Út led 20 2009] [17:41:04] +1 [Út led 20 2009] [17:41:14] +1 [Út led 20 2009] [17:41:23] rdieter: yum remove mysql-server [Út led 20 2009] [17:41:29] besides you will never know about other apps (like extragear) who might use it as well [Út led 20 2009] [17:41:34] you get a long list of kde to be removed [Út led 20 2009] [17:41:40] than: We need to know what the exact deps involved are. [Út led 20 2009] [17:41:49] We can't decide anything without that information. [Út led 20 2009] [17:41:50] than: sure, because mysql-server -> akonadi -> kdepimlibs -> kde world [Út led 20 2009] [17:42:13] ok, i will take a look there [Út led 20 2009] [17:42:23] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-01-20 - disabling gpk-update-icon for KDE". [Út led 20 2009] [17:42:28] OK, next topic: disabling gpk-update-icon for KDE. [Út led 20 2009] [17:42:53] Doing that would be trivial, but the big concern we had when this was last discussed was with upgrade paths. [Út led 20 2009] [17:43:17] It would mean that no kpackagekit = no updater. [Út led 20 2009] [17:43:56] E.g. for F9 installations updated to the latest updates or upgraded to F10. [Út led 20 2009] [17:44:15] On the other hand, having both updaters running is clearly broken. [Út led 20 2009] [17:44:25] is kpackagekit on par with features of gnome-packagekit? [Út led 20 2009] [17:44:27] Kevin_Kofler: is kpackagekit stable enough to replace gpk-update-icon [Út led 20 2009] [17:44:58] i mean gnome-packagekit [Út led 20 2009] [17:45:00] It's the default in F10 already. [Út led 20 2009] [17:45:21] But there's this scary bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=475303 [Út led 20 2009] [17:45:23] Bug 475303: medium, high, ---, smparrish@shallowcreek.net, ASSIGNED, KPackageKit sometimes forgets setting not to auto-install security updates [Út led 20 2009] [17:45:28] Kevin_Kofler: what? :) I didn't notice certainly [Út led 20 2009] [17:45:28] This is really annoying. [Út led 20 2009] [17:45:32] kpackagekit currently not feature complete, but it is stable. New release pending [Út led 20 2009] [17:45:35] Join themayor has joined this channel (n=jack@dsl081-200-018.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net). [Út led 20 2009] [17:46:11] We tried changing the default both in kde-settings and in the code, still sometimes it decides to reset to "Security only". [Út led 20 2009] [17:46:24] Quit giallu has left this server (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)). [Út led 20 2009] [17:46:24] I now suspect that it's because it's the first entry in the combobox. [Út led 20 2009] [17:46:31] It is ready for everyday use, and that affore mentioned bug is affecting some people, but I cannot recreate it on my boxes [Út led 20 2009] [17:46:38] Changing the order of the combobox entries could do some magic. [Út led 20 2009] [17:47:10] Join giallu has joined this channel (n=giallu@fedora/giallu). [Út led 20 2009] [17:47:24] It happens on both my machines. [Út led 20 2009] [17:47:39] But it's not reproducible, it just sometimes magically happens. [Út led 20 2009] [17:48:08] (and annoys me to no end, I hate getting stuff installed without asking for it) [Út led 20 2009] [17:48:30] And it says "Security only", but actually installs all updates. [Út led 20 2009] [17:48:59] Kevin_Kofler: is kpackagekit default in F10 only for new installations? [Út led 20 2009] [17:49:13] ltinkl: yes [Út led 20 2009] [17:49:15] Kevin_Kofler: installing without asking is bad [Út led 20 2009] [17:49:26] Quit rishi has left this server (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). [Út led 20 2009] [17:49:33] jreznik: I know. [Út led 20 2009] [17:49:50] I'd call it a showstopper, it's really bad that we can't manage to fix it. [Út led 20 2009] [17:50:18] It's bad enough that F10 got released with that bug unfixed. [Út led 20 2009] [17:50:23] I'm not using GUI for it, CLI yum is my friend... for me it's showstopper too [Út led 20 2009] [17:50:35] the other approach is to make kpackagekit overrride/disable gnome-packagekit in kde, but that hack/trick doesn't work due to due a kdelibs feature/bug imo. we could explore fixing that bug, then the problem is solved. [Út led 20 2009] [17:52:34] rdieter: what is this bug? [Út led 20 2009] [17:52:59] Join sdziallas has joined this channel (n=sebastia@p57A2D337.dip.t-dialin.net). [Út led 20 2009] [17:52:59] a similar issue has crept of with gnome-packagekit also installing when it shouldn't maybe its packagekit related [Út led 20 2009] [17:53:19] Install .desktop file in both /etc/xdg/autostart and /usr/share/autostart, the one in /usr/share/autostart should take preference and override the other. [Út led 20 2009] [17:53:34] So setting that to Hidden=true should disable the autostarting in KDE. [Út led 20 2009] [17:53:35] including a gpk-foo.desktop file in ~/.config/autostart works to override gnome-packagekit, but /usr/share/autostart doesn't [Út led 20 2009] [17:54:04] SMParrish: No, that was a completely different issue. [Út led 20 2009] [17:54:31] It was about gnome-packagekit installing preupgrade so it can offer distro upgrades. [Út led 20 2009] [17:54:51] What we're seeing is definitely a KPackageKit issue. [Út led 20 2009] [17:55:06] It changes settings around in dialogs which PackageKit has no access to. [Út led 20 2009] [17:55:06] kevin_kofler: your right, bad memory too many bugs in my head lol [Út led 20 2009] [17:55:08] my and Kevin's reading of the code seems to indicate that the override *should* work, but haven't dug very deep to determine how/why it doesn't [Út led 20 2009] [17:55:37] Join warren has joined this channel (n=warren@redhat/wombat/warren). [Út led 20 2009] [17:55:38] rdieter: It'd need single-stepping in a debugger, I think. [Út led 20 2009] [17:55:49] eww [Út led 20 2009] [17:56:03] rdieter: for what do we want this? [Út led 20 2009] [17:56:47] kpackagekit installing a .desktop file to disable gnome-packagekit in KDE. [Út led 20 2009] [17:56:53] than: 1.. to continue to allow kde users to use gnome-packagekit, and 2. when/if kpackagekit is installed, disable gnome-packagekit for kde [Út led 20 2009] [17:56:58] That way if you don't have kpackagekit, you'd still get gnome-packagekit. [Út led 20 2009] [17:57:40] down the road, this may also be a useful trick to use for NetworkManager-gnome [Út led 20 2009] [17:58:29] you mean kpackagekit installs own gpk-update-icon.desktop? [Út led 20 2009] [17:59:03] than: not currently [Út led 20 2009] [17:59:07] Join Zool^ has joined this channel (n=kaland@213.225.96.164). [Út led 20 2009] [18:00:06] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-01-20 - live CD size issues". [Út led 20 2009] [18:00:08] hm i really don't like this [Út led 20 2009] [18:00:16] Quit nphilipp has left this server ("Leaving"). [Út led 20 2009] [18:00:22] I'm not convinced it's a good idea either. [Út led 20 2009] [18:00:38] But what I see is that we're running out of time. [Út led 20 2009] [18:00:58] I'd say let's bring this up again next week. [Út led 20 2009] [18:01:03] without such a hack/trick, then we're into the worse "upgrade path" [Út led 20 2009] [18:01:10] upgrade path mess... that is [Út led 20 2009] [18:01:15] let's move the kpackagekit issue to the next meeting, we have to resolve this [Út led 20 2009] [18:01:20] Maybe we should just have kdebase-workspace require kpackagekit? [Út led 20 2009] [18:01:39] Kevin_Kofler: that's the best/only option right now, yeah [Út led 20 2009] [18:01:59] There's one last topic on the agenda: svahl asked for feedback on the mailing list because the live CD is oversized again. [Út led 20 2009] [18:02:00] but move on, time is short [Út led 20 2009] [18:02:04] Mainly due to input methods. [Út led 20 2009] [18:02:08] but having both gpk and kpackagekit installed at the same time doesn't make much sense either [Út led 20 2009] [18:02:09] Join abadger19991 has joined this channel (n=abadger1@65.78.187.8). [Út led 20 2009] [18:02:24] ltinkl: +1 [Út led 20 2009] [18:02:25] right, move on [Út led 20 2009] [18:02:27] ltinkl: multiuser machine, 1 users -> gnome, 1 user -> kde [Út led 20 2009] [18:02:28] I think we should just drop (i.e. not add, we never had them) the input methods from the KDE live image. [Út led 20 2009] [18:02:36] Quit abadger1999 has left this server ("Leaving."). [Út led 20 2009] [18:02:39] ok s/installed/running [Út led 20 2009] [18:02:43] but you get the idea [Út led 20 2009] [18:03:05] Join hansg has joined this channel (n=hans@ip32-174-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl). [Út led 20 2009] [18:03:10] But maybe we should discuss this in the mailing list thread? We're already over time. [Út led 20 2009] [18:03:11] Hi all [Út led 20 2009] [18:03:12] Kevin_Kofler: +1, we make no bones about admitting our live image is English only [Út led 20 2009] [18:03:22] I'm present [Út led 20 2009] [18:03:56] Quit gja has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Út led 20 2009] [18:03:58] I'd say let's make room for the FPC folks now. [Út led 20 2009] [18:04:10] * spot is here as well [Út led 20 2009] [18:04:10] let's move home to #fedora-kde [Út led 20 2009] [18:04:27] FPC folks: feel free to change the topic, we're done here. [Út led 20 2009] [18:04:50] Part Kevin_Kofler has left this channel ("Bye!"). [Út led 20 2009] [18:05:17] Topic spot sets the channel topic to "Fedora Packaging Committee Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingDrafts/DraftsTodo". [Út led 20 2009] [18:05:40] Join racor has joined this channel (n=rc040203@HSI-KBW-078-043-127-065.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de). [Út led 20 2009] [18:06:20] i see hans, me, and racor [Út led 20 2009] [18:06:41] * rdieter puts on fpc hat [Út led 20 2009] [18:06:47] abadger19991, tibbs, SmootherFrOgZ? [Út led 20 2009] [18:06:55] Yep. [Út led 20 2009] [18:07:15] First day of the semester; very busy here at work.